The Mirror Event - New York 2018 - Day 2 - Part 3/3


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Thank you sooo much for these recordings! :-)

 

I heard Teal say at the end that there's a day  - will that be put online as well? The exercises after the walk?

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On 6/4/2018 at 10:24 AM, Katharina Ritschl said:

Thank you sooo much for these recordings! ?

 

I heard Teal say at the end that there's a day  - will that be put online as well? The exercises after the walk?

No, day 3 was not recorded :)

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I am the last girl in the video. Here are some points that I never expressed at the workshop because I did not pay to have arguments, yet they remain important if rational conviction is her approach to enlightening people. 

1. What I am experiencing is the conflict between relatedness/relationships and autonomy/freedom or competency/life purpose/mission. As I said all three needs are fundamental and we cannot trump one over the others. Thus the essence of my problem is "need conflict" which cannot be resolved by devaluing freedom or life contribution (i.e., "relationships are the number one human need"). Exactly "how" we could have freedom & be authentic to life purpose while maintaining relationships & with whom was the question that should have been focused on. 

2. By changing the definition of relationships from relationships with human beings to relationships with "everything", she defeated her own suggestion for me to not bypass human relationships. If relationships are general, any specific type should suffice (which I do not believe is true--human relationships are uniquely important. The previous statements were about my problem with her reasoning that was really confusing). 

3. Using herself as an example to say human relationships were all that mattered was not completely persuasive: her experiences not only instilled in her fear of relationships but also an actual dependency on people (e.g., not being able to take care of her own life) that served as an extrinsic motive for relationships. 

I felt and understood her intention to help me. Yet by shoving the statement "relationships are everything" down my throat instead of telling me exactly how to resolve the conflict between relationships & freedom/competency with all these loopholes in her reasoning, I felt the "warning" was more of a threat than an advice, which felt coersive. There is a fine line between eloquence and sophism. 

Thank you,

Quinn

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@Treyoung1990

but you understand that humans are relationally dependend on each other and that the todays level of "independence" and disconnection for the sake of "autonomy" is what makes people suffer and what makes it possible to start war against each other. i think she explaines it in the video "how has it come to this - the collapse into independece".

Maybe her video "i can have me and i can have you too" may help you? 

and having unhealthy relationships indeed makes people sick. 

 

 

Edited by my-alteregos-and-me

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vor 5 Stunden schrieb Treyoung1990:

Exactly "how" we could have freedom & be authentic to life purpose while maintaining relationships & with whom was the question that should have been focused on. 

where is the problem with that?

why are you trying to have an "academic" discussion with teal swan, just to argue yourself out of being relationally dependend? you just are and you always will be, if you like it or not.

i think she said all there needs to be said. 

Edited by my-alteregos-and-me

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8 hours ago, my-alteregos-and-me said:

where is the problem with that?

why are you trying to have an "academic" discussion with teal swan, just to argue yourself out of being relationally dependend? you just are and you always will be, if you like it or not.

i think she said all there needs to be said. 

Thank you! 

I think I agree with most of your opinions. However, specifically, two issues I think need clarification.

1. You are right in that I was arguing myself to get out of human relationships. A part of me completely agree with the necessity of human relationships, yet a part of me wonder if health can be maintained through connection with nature, animals, God, etc. It would be great if she could specifically explain why human relationships in particular were indispensable instead of changing the definition of relationships to the most encompassing & fundamental sense. My wish is a change of emphasis to the content of the videos you recommended, instead of forceful attempt towards rational conviction of the statement "relationships are everything" when she could not even define relationships consistently. 

2. Regarding your question "why are you trying to have an "academic" discussion with teal swan", I sense a negative emotional response to my defense of being "academic", which leads to an another interesting question of the necessity to mention these "academic theories". To begin with, I share the emotional response you have towards myself. I was and still am quite embarrassed by that defense. But the embarrassing and awkward mentioning of "academic theories" actually points to an objective fact: lack of communication between psychologists and spiritual teachers who are working on the exact same phenomena of human consciousness. It would be great if our spiritual teachers can have more structure in their thinking and our psychology theorists can be more in touch with actual human sufferings. 

I recognize that I have put myself in a very vulnerable position by identifying myself. May this conversation be of value to observant people. 

Best,

Quinn

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On 6/9/2018 at 8:16 AM, Treyoung1990 said:

What I am experiencing is the conflict between relatedness/relationships and autonomy/freedom or competency/life purpose/mission

What solved the subject for me:

1. Imagine having a purpose and autonomy. You win the Nobel prize, but go home and have no one to tell about it, no one to celebrate with you.

On the other hand, imagine having the best imaginable relationship and family. You laugh, hug and celebrate together, but you do not have the career success. 

(My feeling was that relationships makes the purpose miniature)

2. Realistically, I feel the need to be active in the career-world sphere. I feel doing it in a proportion that is right for me will also benefit my personal relationships, as it will make me happy, therefore there is no conflict. Where do those needs conflict for you? Why not work during the day and invest in people in your free time? 

3. With regards to autonomy, the key in my case was losing the fears of being alone and being emotionally hurt, through a long process of dating and emotional expression around the fact that I might stay alone forever. By knowing how to deal will the occasional fear that things will be over, I stay autonomous in relationships, because I am not afraid to go away in case things are bad.

4. When it comes to success in life/helping others, I feel healing myself is the biggest success/help to others I can get, and healing will be primarily through the right relationships rather then through purpose.

Would love to hear from you,
Rotem

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