Garnet

Patriarchy.

94 posts in this topic

Patriarchy.

I've been taking online courses on Female Arts for the past 2,5 years and it's been mentioned numerous times over and over about negative impact of patriarchy onto women such as oppression, the way women view themselves, shame and so on.

The teachers do however speak about men and the fact that they also have suffered from patriarchy. 

I haven't really thought about what I heard and didn't untill recently and I became curious to know what exactly some of those negative impacts actually are.

It's been on my mind to ask this question in the circles but I haven't found the right approach yet, mainly due to people taking a strong stance on one side or the other, so it occurred to me that perhaps this maybe a very painful topic just yet.

From independent spiritual stand point what do you think the negative impact of patriarchy onto men is?

Some of the things that I can think of right now:

power, corruption, war, higher taxes.

 

 

 

 

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Edited by Garnet
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Off the top of my head, I think the patriarchy rewards and values strength, power, and possibly even dominance.   It doesn’t value the softer things, such as empathy, support and nurturing.  

And so, those people who identify more with their softer side (which includes maybe most women but also many men)  feel oppression, shame etc. for not being the powerful, dominant person.

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Thank you for your input @Scot.

Yes, unfortunately the answer is in your reply. The emotional side is more vulnerable for a reason and in the past few years I've watched, read and witnessed people trying to be open about it. I did so myself in the best way I could or as authentically as possible spiritually speaking.

Honestly, I don't feel it has its "pay off" on a larger scale and instead often invites more trouble.

Close relationships - yes.

The "oppression " and the dominance here is most likely due each man's sense of integrity, ability to relate to another as well as how bad he feels after degrading or humiliating another man. When guilt is absent... then there you have it.

Btw the softer side can be balanced by the choice of clothing. 

Successful men often speak about "dressing for success". Why? Because it works and it speaks for itself. 

One can be the nicest, sweetest and kind man in the world, but when he proudly wears a suit everyone knows he means business. 

 

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11 hours ago, Ameit said:

What is the Title of this course and who is arranging it? 

Thank you for asking Ameit. If you are interested head over google and search Layla Martin. You can find the information you need there. She also offers Mastery course for Men. Unfortunately I know nobody who took it, so I can't say much about it.

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Hi again Garnet,

Something else I would like to add would be that the dominant person might come to believe that that is all they are.  Thus, cutting themselves off from their own softer side.  And I think this is to the detriment of the dominant person.

 

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I've not been a fan of how it gets talked about for a long time in a lot of circles on social media, but... ohwell, can't control that! It brings up many lines of thought, regardless of anything else.

I guess Scot's comment really hits on one of the big threads. The rejection of vulnerability and emotion, oftentimes in practice, seems to foster ignorance of the emotional aspects of the self. People can't learn things if they don't experience them honestly; emotionality and vulnerability are pretty alien concepts to someone who's spent their whole live rejecting them. Problem is, without experiencing those things honestly, a person doesn't really understand their impact upon others, and so fails to respect their significance. Won't see the need for them, or their place in the course of things. Their understanding is incomplete and fatally flawed.

When Patriarchy's getting talked about, that's one of the big themes that usually comes up; the suppression of emotion, failure to respect the 'weak' feelings and ideas that are generally there for a reason. Leads to a lot of bad things; violence and lack of respect for life, is one of the big ones that come up. I'm quite a war buff, very interested in the psychology of war. Can't deny that the ideas that fuel patriarchy are there, very strong, in pretty much every war I've learned about; 'there's no place for weakness here; we kill or we die'. The reality of the needless tribalism and escalating violence is ignored, the 'weak' emotions are rejected, and there's only crushing the 'other' into death and submission, no matter who or what dies along the way, innocent or not. Negative, 'weak' feelings are just one more obstacle to be crushed and ignored, instead of being warning signs that... well, that things aren't right.

Empathising with people you've not met is twisted into being wrong, because it's seen as 'weak'. Digust at killing strangers is twisted into being wrong, because it's 'sentimental'. Not seeing the value in sacrificing your own life for a cause that you don't agree with is twisted into  'cowardice'. And so on. War sucks, etc.

It's definately as toxic for men as it is for women... but unfortunately many of the people who are most vocal about it, are paradoxically drowning in it, both in the 'for' and 'against' camps.

In light of that, what you say is true too, Garnet: weakness and vulnerability don't really do much to stop the aggression that is their antithesis. Like is said in Lord of the Rings: what can men do against such wreckless hate? It's tough to oppose something without adopting it, at least in part. Which is a problem.

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I think the whole idea of "The Patriarchy" is an illusion. It's just a title that people use to represent all the dark sides of leaders. In the United States, we are afforded many freedoms and in some ways live blessed lives. We have access to clean water, food from around the world, air conditioning, these are things that kings of the past never enjoyed. We have all these things because of good people and leaders of the past, but the mind quickly forgets that when you turn on the news and you hear all the negativity. To take on all of that negativity is a big responsibility and most can't handle it so they look for someone to blame, and that's "The Patriarchy". 

Or maybe I'm wrong and there is a secret society of men who come together to plan ways to make us all miserable.

Either way, I think the best way to heal this world is to not look to condemn others but to work on ourselves and let our lights shine in the darkness.

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@Scot @Done Now and @Jesu thanks for the added thoughts. 

I've been thinking about it for a while and vulnerability does seem to be an issue here. It's like what DoneNow says in times of war you either do or die. It's because on a death bed we are all the same. Most people fight till the end. Even serial killers that are being sentenced to death. Some of them open up their most vulnerable side right before death and cry in fear. Just like children. Maybe in hopes for one last chance to turn everything around. It is hard. I don't know how they do execution like that.

Having that said there is a story I would like to share.

For some time I've struggled to explain our son about negative internet hate talk. At that time he completely denied that what I was saying had any truth to it. Interestingly he was fascinated by Alex' s rice experiment if any of you followed that as well as Dr. Emotto' s water crystals.

The thing he would insist the most was that the negativity had no effect on him because what I called "hate" was happening around his avatar. Not him. Therefore he is fine. 

I couldn't comprehend it first, couldn't cope with it especially with all this importance of self-love in spiritual community. But then I got to think about it a little deeper and I realized that there's actually something there in his words. 

I believe that newer generations come with a more updated brain or otherwise evolution  would be completely stagnant, lol So in that sense I can see how what I thought was true may not be true for him.

That explains why so many people prefer to open up anonymously or using different avatar when going publicly. The point is that the created identity can withstand the attack or negative feedback much better that the actual person. I don't know if I fully believe that nothing touches it though.

The next scene of the movie Ultraviolet speaks to the unseen things that are happening in the society. 

 

 

 

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Well, in a society that prefers masculinity over femininity, and sees masculinity and positive and femininity as weak (at best) and evil (at worst), there will be a great pressure on men to be masculine and masculine only. So, we will have lower expectations on women, because 'women can't really help being weak and incompetent.' But men 'should know better because they're supposed to be strong and competent.'

So, we end up with a society where men are always having to write over their natural traits (including their natural masculinity) to perform masculinity. And if they don't do that, they are shamed for it and seen as lesser. This comes down especially hard on naturally feminine men and gay men, because they display feminine traits. This is the source of the majority of homophobic and transphobic sentiments, which gay men and trans-women get targeted for a bit more than lesbians and trans-men. The former get punished for deviation from the norm and deviating from masculinity when they should 'know better'. The latter get punished for deviation from the norm mostly, with a few other smaller factors coming into play.

But all men have a tremendous amount of responsibility to perform masculinity jettisoned upon them by society. It's much more difficult for them to buck gender norms than women for this reason. They also get more power in return.

It's the whole, "With great power comes great responsibility," idea. Only it's more like, "If you want power, your responsibility is to constantly police yourself to be sure you're being masculine enough. And if you aren't be masculine enough, then you're a waste of space."

Edited by Emerald Wilkins

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"Women are largely excluded "

Personally I do not believe that men ever wanted women or femininity out. Perhaps only in certain areas of life... the question is then Where?

When thinking about a good example of Patriarchy the movie "Equilibrium" (2002 with Christian Bale) comes in mind where the plot is filled with intense void of feminine qualities by suppressing the ability to feel with any of the 5 main senses.

 

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I think when the main 5 senses are suppressed our perception of beauty drastically changes. 

The result is numbness and we begin to treat each other as disposable objects. 

In this case, I can't help but wonder if there is any heartbeat present behind the cold bars of the chest.

 

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Have you ever noticed which places have some of the most beautiful walls and ceilings?

Music Halls are one of them.

Instrumental music is known to carry and be among the highest vibrations.

 

What if.... the majestic feel is sculpted and orchestrated by the sound....

Maybe this is what we see when walking into the place like this...

 

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As F. Dostoevsky said: "Beauty will save the world " then

who saves beauty?

We may forget what beauty looks like for each and every of us but we always remember how it makes us feel once we recognize it.

Louis XIV of France is a great example of a man who was actually very proud of his more feminine or softer side. It didn't make him any less of a man he was, instead this full... bold self-expression... Love of art... music and dance... fashion... food... gardening... weaknesses for beauty.... enormously and shamelessly boosted his ego and left a very memorable bright stamp in the History of Man Kind.

I feel that channeling his spirit would be very beneficial and uplifting for anyone who wishes to work on their believe system. Flag and Google into your hands)

 

 

 

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