Paula

Are narcissistic people running a "premade program"?

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Are narcissistic people running a "premade program"?

I have met people with marcissistic traits, inside my family and out, from different social backgrounds and cultures... and I have noticed that they have identical attitudes. I understand that we all share basic emotions and this surely creates collectives behaviors, but what amaze me from narcissistic people is that they seem to have identical ways to denigrate others, regardless their background and even if they were born thousands of kilometers away from each other. 

This makes me feel that, as humans, we come with a limited spectrum of "possibilities" of self-expression, that we can see clearly when we deal with people with narcissistic traits. I wonder if this happens to all of us (and not only narcissistic people) like if we were pre-made with a set of behaviors, regardless race, gender, geographical birth or cultural background. As I also believed that we have unlimited potential, this "premade" setup distress me... are we really limited as to what we can be as human beings? 

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I notice huge similarities too. I'm always fascinated by narcissists, probably to my own detriment! 

There's a lot of material out there that talks about the underlying drivers of the condition. A lot in particular, revolves around the amygdala. I've been learningg from my wife's work (with abused and/or neglected kids) that the amygdala is a real lynchpin of the fight/flight/freeze reflex. It's what comes active and takes ovet when we're in survival mode. I've also learned from online materisls that most of the cluster B personality disorders (which i cludes narcissism) tend to, basically, be in survival mode most of the thime that they're dealing with others. As in, their amygdalas are firing off, trying to induce the fight/flight reflex. The socialisation that tends to make narcissism tends to favour 'fight', although not necessarily literal, physical fighting. 

I suppose there is truth the the fact that they tend to behave very similarly to each other. There's something to be said in that as to what it means about most people's responses to most things: do we all fit into lottle boxes of how we behave, and its just that most of those boxes are benign enough to not be identified? Maybe. At the same time, we know that narcissists tend to work off instinct: instinct is always limited and reasonably predictable once established.

One of my favourite youtubers who talks about narcissists likens them to trees that got split apart when they were very young: the different fragments keep trying to work together, but can't. They're broken, split, fragmented people who cannot function like non-narcissists. Maybe that means they're fundamentally different tk the rest of us, maybe not. Everyone, after all, has some narcissistic traits in them. That's how personality disorders work: everyone has some bits, the problem is just when someone takes them to an extreme.

Edited by Done Now

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I think it depends how one deals with change. People don't like to feel uncomfortable and often would rather stick to a familiar pattern than to try something different. 

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19 hours ago, Done Now said:

I notice huge similarities too. I'm always fascinated by narcissists, probably to my own detriment! 

There's a lot of material out there that talks about the underlying drivers of the condition. A lot in particular, revolves around the amygdala. I've been learningg from my wife's work (with abused and/or neglected kids) that the amygdala is a real lynchpin of the fight/flight/freeze reflex. It's what comes active and takes ovet when we're in survival mode. I've also learned from online materisls that most of the cluster B personality disorders (which i cludes narcissism) tend to, basically, be in survival mode most of the thime that they're dealing with others. As in, their amygdalas are firing off, trying to induce the fight/flight reflex. The socialisation that tends to make narcissism tends to favour 'fight', although not necessarily literal, physical fighting. 

I suppose there is truth the the fact that they tend to behave very similarly to each other. There's something to be said in that as to what it means about most people's responses to most things: do we all fit into lottle boxes of how we behave, and its just that most of those boxes are benign enough to not be identified? Maybe. At the same time, we know that narcissists tend to work off instinct: instinct is always limited and reasonably predictable once established.

One of my favourite youtubers who talks about narcissists likens them to trees that got split apart when they were very young: the different fragments keep trying to work together, but can't. They're broken, split, fragmented people who cannot function like non-narcissists. Maybe that means they're fundamentally different tk the rest of us, maybe not. Everyone, after all, has some narcissistic traits in them. That's how personality disorders work: everyone has some bits, the problem is just when someone takes them to an extreme.

Thank you. Lots of good insights. I am actually seeing that the human species as a whole has narcissism as one of the "birth" traits and I am thinking that our job as humans is to understand it and educate it to grow. I see humanity as a whole still in infancy as species, and now we are at a point of our evolution where we have enough tools to make a leap towards adulthood. As an animal rights activist, I find that the way we treat other living beings -and this included plants, trees, and everything that exists basically, is very similar to what babies do with "objects" that cross their path: without the consciousness of the "other". Very narcissistic. I find that this is strongly related to economics, which needs to keep us in survival mode to thrive.

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2 hours ago, Garnet said:

I think it depends how one deals with change. People don't like to feel uncomfortable and often would rather stick to a familiar pattern than to try something different. 

 

Yes, there is a lot of staying where one feels safe. What I find about "change" is that we might not be able to know that we need a change when we have not experience a better situation, something that can make contrast with our current situation and that can help as a "direction" for change. In any case, the point that narcissistic traits are quite similar regardless the backgrounds of each people. I am amazed of seeing the same attitude in someone from Argentina to someone from Iran, for example. If a physical part of the body is related to narcissism - like the previous comment mentions, then similarities make sense. In any case, is fascinating... and perhaps we are closer to find a solution for narcissism.

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1 hour ago, Paula said:

Thank you. Lots of good insights. I am actually seeing that the human species as a whole has narcissism as one of the "birth" traits and I am thinking that our job as humans is to understand it and educate it to grow. 

Only 1 percent of the western population has had narcissistic personality disorder at some point in thier life. 

You might be mischaracterising some of the people you think are narcissists if you assume it's more common.

 

Narcissists often take advantage of people's kindness and don't actually care about them as people. Done Now might be a good example of this. All I know about him is his behavior here, which also seems antisocial to me. You're actually enabling his covert behavior by validating his presence. It allows him easier access to the minds he wants access to. 

 

When it comes to narcissists you can't do much to help it. Many narcissists don't agree they have a psychological issue. It's an issue that requires and also victimizes other people, so it is problematic. It's different than egocentrism but similar in that they have a stark lack of empathy for others. Again, not much you can do. You cam try to reason with them, but some people have a hard time shifting thier focal point away from purely themselves and thier feelings to others'. Some become good at pretending because it requires taking advantage of others for a personal gain.

You just have to leave them alone. Stay away because they'll exploit you if they see an opportunity to.

 

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9 minutes ago, MistaRender said:

Only 1 percent of the western population has had narcissistic personality disorder at some point in thier life. 

You might be mischaracterising some of the people you think are narcissists if you assume it's more common.

 

Narcissists often take advantage of people's kindness and don't actually care about them as people. Done Now might be a good example of this. All I know about him is his behavior here, which also seems antisocial to me. You're actually enabling his covert behavior by validating his presence. It allows him easier access to the minds he wants access to. 

 

When it comes to narcissists you can't do much to help it. Many narcissists don't agree they have a psychological issue. It's an issue that requires and also victimizes other people, so it is problematic. It's different than egocentrism but similar in that they have a stark lack of empathy for others. Again, not much you can do. You cam try to reason with them, but some people have a hard time shifting thier focal point away from purely themselves and thier feelings to others'. Some become good at pretending because it requires taking advantage of others for a personal gain.

You just have to leave them alone. Stay away because they'll exploit you if they see an opportunity to.

 

Thanks for your reply. I am just astonished that you assume I don't understand narcissism and find it a bot violent from your part. I am new to this forum and franckly, I do like Done Now response because it adds to what I was actually saying about this topic.

I am going beyond from the definition of narcissism. I am studying pattern behaviour. I have experienced narcissists in my life. I have relocated from my home country more than once and met people from all over the world. And I see that there are certain attitudes that have amazingly the same wording (storyline), even when, looking at it from a cultural or historical point of view it would be impossible. This made me think that it can be a sort of "programming" that is standardized in humans as species. I am not looking forward to relate more narcissistic people because of all what you described, but I do see these patterns and it opens my mind to new ways of thinking... perhaps our emotional responses are just another body that performs a finite set of "movements" and once we learn how to "move" with the emotional body, we'll discover something else that is not even existant for most of us.

 

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10 minutes ago, Paula said:

Thanks for your reply. I am just astonished that you assume I don't understand narcissism and find it a bot violent from your part.

Lol. Violent? How was I violent?

 

12 minutes ago, Paula said:

I am new to this forum and franckly, I do like Done Now response because it adds to what I was actually saying about this topic.

Well he's a malicious troll so... Lol. I'm not berating you, but I am a bit more firmiliar with what goes on.

 All I did was tell you. 

 

16 minutes ago, Paula said:

I am going beyond from the definition of narcissism. I am studying pattern behaviour. I have experienced narcissists in my life. I have relocated from my home country more than once and met people from all over the world. And I see that there are certain attitudes that have amazingly the same wording (storyline), even when, looking at it from a cultural or historical point of view it would be impossible. This made me think that it can be a sort of "programming" that is standardized in humans as species. I am not looking forward to relate more narcissistic people because of all what you described, but I do see these patterns and it opens my mind to new ways of thinking... perhaps our emotional responses are just another body that performs a finite set of "movements" and once we learn how to "move" with the emotional body, we'll discover something else that is not even existant for most of us.

 

Some people have to learn thier way out of it. They have to think in ways they've never thought of before. To some, that's a difficult task they might not even take. It's hard to deal with people who secretly want to exploit you. My advice is to stay away from people who might be like that. 

 

 

 

Lol jeez 😳

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@MistaRender It's very childish that you choose to keep bringing up your own issues with me to other people with this highschool gossip game instead of either dealing with them directly or growing up and moving on.

@Paula For your context here though: He's like that with everyone he talks to, best not to take it personally. I've said to him a few times in the past that I think he has Narcissistic personality disorder. You might be able to see why. You get used to him.

Anyway. Enough of his drama for me. It's all he's here to create. Back to topic.

It's definately the conventional wisdom to not engage. Like one of my favourite Youtubers points out: without other people around to engage in the posturing games with and fixate on, most narcissists will emotionally de-compensate. It's part of why the behaviour follows certain lines; getting people engaged and responding in order to feel validated. Which again, is normal behaviour, but taken to an extreme. There are shortcuts for getting attention and engagement, and ultimately negative attention is stronger, more recognisable and easier to get than positive attention. Ultimately it's a learned behaviour that's used as a self-protective mechanism. Gaslighting, baiting, blame and judgement are all tools used to that end. It's interesting to me that you say that the general behavioural patterns are the same across cultures and environments... but I guess maybe that does support the idea that it's instinctual at its core. Certain needs result in certain behaviours...

I have a whole bunch of Youtube videos I can link you to, if you'd like. I find the mechanisms *fascinating*, because I've been subject to a number of quite extreme narcissists in life (and they are *so* common), and learning about them was one of those times when I had a whole series of 'oh, shit, that makes so much sense now!' moments. My wife's father was a textbook narcissist, was horribly emotionally abusive. Some of the things he did defy reason and belief. I feel it's important, and interesting, to learn about. Only through learning and engagement can anything harmful be disempowered!

I'm not such a fan of avoiding people who exhibit it, though. That's the prevailing wisdom. But, heh, like I said, I'm interested in it to my own detriment. I'm not a fan of the idea of not engaging with something that's so... detrimental to the people around it. Feels like turning a blind eye, ignoring something instead of learning from it. Denial and avoidance, to me, are parts of the problem. I prefer integration, even where it seems impossible. I think a solution to unconstrained Narcissism is important to aim for, because I agree with what you say about our economic society; it seems designed to keep us fighting, competing and creates an environment overall that encourages and fosters Narcissism (amongst a whole host of other personality disorders), and creates few (if any) social defenses against it.

But, heheh, case in point, directly engaging results in... Nothing too positive. Something to learn from, probably, but not positive or constructive. Like the saying goes; don't wrestle with pigs in the mud. You just get dirty, and the pig enjoys it.

I'm sure there's a third path of sorts, but whatever it is doesn't seem apparent. One of Teal Swan's videos ('Fuck balance') seemed quite relevant though... but that one is very, very messy in practice, I feel. I mean, ultimately the behaviour comes about as a result of having unmet needs (it's hard to not empathise with that), but in practice, the needs are impossible to meet, so... it's tricky and often very frustrating.

Edited by Done Now
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Done Now posted that 12 hours ago. Edited it 1 hour ago. 

All the main trolls do that. 

I call Done Now a troll because he acts like one. I'll tell anyone I want to tell.

All too often he's berated me for things I'm not even doing. When you have that many strawman arguments, it's because you are hiding your real argument. His real arguments is "You shouldn't be here because I disagree with your principles."

 

At this point it doesn't matter if I'm slightly narcissistic or have full-blown NPD. I could have NPD and he still would have no excuse for his behavior. I would still be anti-exploitation, anti-brainwashing, and anti-child abuse. Being narcissistic doesn't mean you're mentally insane. It mostly has to do with coping mechanisms for emotional pain, and also selfish habits hard wiring in your brain.

 

If you want to know the truth, the reason he doesn't like me is not because of any percieved narcissism.

The real reason he dislikes me is because I am a honey-badger child's rights activist, pro-liberty, pro-America, and anti-exploitation. He's on the political left. He consciously sides with pedophile activists. Just the truth. He doesn't like any of my principles. If he did, he would have always treated me differently. 

If you want to know honestly, he doesn't even think I have NPD. It's always been his way of excusing away everything I've said. He wants you to think I'm incapable of being rational.

 

Maybe he has narcissism, maybe not. Maybe I do, maybe not. Doesn't actually matter what you call it or label it. The fact is he is against my principles. That's why he is calling me narcissistic.

Not terribly difficult to understand conceptually. If you had seen his prior behavior it would be obvious he simply dislikes my values.

 

 

I would definitely stay clear of Done Now. He seems reasonable. I agree. 

 

 

 

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On 7/11/2018 at 7:29 PM, MistaRender said:

Done Now posted that 12 hours ago. Edited it 1 hour ago. 

All the main trolls do that. 

I call Done Now a troll because he acts like one. I'll tell anyone I want to tell.

All too often he's berated me for things I'm not even doing. When you have that many strawman arguments, it's because you are hiding your real argument. His real arguments is "You shouldn't be here because I disagree with your principles."

 

At this point it doesn't matter if I'm slightly narcissistic or have full-blown NPD. I could have NPD and he still would have no excuse for his behavior. I would still be anti-exploitation, anti-brainwashing, and anti-child abuse. Being narcissistic doesn't mean you're mentally insane. It mostly has to do with coping mechanisms for emotional pain, and also selfish habits hard wiring in your brain.

 

If you want to know the truth, the reason he doesn't like me is not because of any percieved narcissism.

The real reason he dislikes me is because I am a honey-badger child's rights activist, pro-liberty, pro-America, and anti-exploitation. He's on the political left. He consciously sides with pedophile activists. Just the truth. He doesn't like any of my principles. If he did, he would have always treated me differently. 

If you want to know honestly, he doesn't even think I have NPD. It's always been his way of excusing away everything I've said. He wants you to think I'm incapable of being rational.

 

Maybe he has narcissism, maybe not. Maybe I do, maybe not. Doesn't actually matter what you call it or label it. The fact is he is against my principles. That's why he is calling me narcissistic.

Not terribly difficult to understand conceptually. If you had seen his prior behavior it would be obvious he simply dislikes my values.

 

 

I would definitely stay clear of Done Now. He seems reasonable. I agree. 

 

 

 

Adam,

Your  comment above was flagged and I would like to adress website rules for you here that way I know you saw and read it.

If you think that for some reason your comment does not fall into any of the categories, please let me know.

As of now I am giving you a strike for disrespectful attitude and cyber bullying. 

If anyone has something else to say, you are welcome to leave a comment and/or suggestions. I'll be glad to hear back from the community. 

In the meantime, thank you for the attention. 

Hope everyone is doing good and enjoying warm summer and all it has to offer.

Garnet

 

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