Scot

Objectivity, Subjectivity and the Multidimensional Universe

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Objectivity, Subjectivity and the Multidimensional Universe

@Inquisitor

I think this topic could use its own thread.

My meditation teacher said this very well:  everything is both objective and subjective.  For example a pen.  For most human beings a pen is something that we write with.  For a little baby, they might think it is something that you suck on (so most adults would not give a baby a pen).   For a dog, a pen might look enough like a stick that it could be something that they fetch.  Subjective to our perceptions, a pen is a thing used for writing.  But it’s more than just subjective.  It’s objective too.  There is ink that will eventually run out.  We usually imagine that pens will just keep on writing and if a pen was subjective only it might write forever.  However there is also and objective truth that a pen only has so much ink.

Therefore, there is an objective truth and a subjective perception of the observer.

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This is why I wish I was able to explain things in a grounded manner. Trying to explain at a high level consciousness that relates to 3rd dimensional  / physical understanding. This is half the problem I have when attempting to propose an extended inference that might not align with preconceived comprehension such as "only physical reality exists and that's all there is because there is no evidence of anything else." Not everyone would think like that, I'm sort of just using MR's example of "everything is what it is because I'm objectively right."

The thing I was trying to get at though, which is actually considerably risky in regard to those who aren't really to into the spiritual fields is that your consciousness or subconscious has the ability to control your reality. To what extent it depends. Timelines for example. Most people don't see or believe it because they think what they see in front of them is "the" objective reality that cannot be altered. They see something on the news and think "that is real and cannot be prevented because it's happening now" but that is because  your choices and beliefs such as fears or desires etc have aligned you to that specific timeline where that event occurred. I expect I'd get some backlash for that statement because some might either won't understand how or because I can't "objectively" prove it or that I'm pulling from my ass or even because that kind of thing is simply "not real" or "does not exist."

Edited by Inquisitor
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Is it “subjectivity” that gives rise to the multi-dimensions that Teal talks about?   Or is there an additional factor that I am not considering?

I’ll tell you why I ask:   For a while I was debating with a poster here named walt.   After a while of discussion, it seemed like we were in different universes.  We were both responding to a third person who posted on the forum.  In my world, the post came from a reasonably nice guy who just needed a little support to get himself through a tough time in his marriage.  In Walt’s world the post was from a guy who was looking for validation of his asshole behavior towards his wife.   In my universe, we support each other  and that is good. (interdependence).  In Walt’s universe, any love and support is codependency and that is bad.

It was amazing how we seemed to be in different dimensions.   It occurred to me that the difference could all be caused by our different subjective perceptions of where this third person was coming from.  

But my question to you: is that all there is to the multi-dimensions of the multidimensional universe?  Or are there other factors that I haven’t considered?

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Is it “subjectivity” that gives rise to the multi-dimensions that Teal talks about?   Or is there an additional factor that I am not considering?

By itself, I don't know what you mean, however I'll probably get onto it with the context. 

There is always something more, even if it might not be relatable. Just things, details that had yet to be considered or that is currently out of comprehensive reach, but that doesn't mean that a viewpoint is "inaccurate" or "incomplete" without them as to see ignorance implies a degree of arrogance.

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I’ll tell you why I ask:   For a while I was debating with a poster here named walt.   After a while of discussion, it seemed like we were in different universes.  We were both responding to a third person who posted on the forum.  In my world, the post came from a reasonably nice guy who just needed a little support to get himself through a tough time in his marriage.  In Walt’s world the post was from a guy who was looking for validation of his asshole behavior towards his wife.   In my universe, we support each other  and that is good. (interdependence).  In Walt’s universe, any love and support is codependency and that is bad.

This sort of links with the timelines aspect. They were, in a sense, both true. I tend to go with the saying "where there lies two extremes, the truth lies someone in between."

I had run into a similar situation with a psychic who I suspected of manipulating the timelines of his clients. As I said how your beliefs and choices effect what timeline your on, this is how energetic resonance works. Your thoughts and emotions fuel events to happen. What I suspect this psychic of doing was nudging them towards a specific timeline to exploit it where he has a sort of scheme where he does normal readings but he also does these "special readings" for certain events like "this event is going to happen soon, I have X space available (typically less than 100) book a session to receive these benefits". Could be something like a negative energy prevention thing or if it's a positive event, the ability to feel those effects through some energy healing thing. Point is, by telling these people that this apparent event is going to occur, they will automatically take his word on it and therefore this event will occur because he has planted the energy resonance in them. He will say something like "If you don't come now within a limited time span you'll miss out." and when the event occurs in that person's timeline, they regret not doing it because they see that as objectively happening and that he was "right" the whole time. Thing is, I can't tell if this is a deliberate scheme or that he is unaware that he's doing it because all he might see is a vision (he's a claimed clairvoyant) of what's going to happen. I.e. he himself might be a victim of being stuck in a fixed timeline by just seeing and interpreting what he has.

Teal isn't the only one talking about them though. She's just currently in the spotlight because of the nature of her field and of course taking into account this is essentially her website, so everything practically revolves around her, either indirectly, or in passing. Catalyst indeed, but the same sort of concept applies here. With these different timelines, we are effectively echoes of each other. Teal is the mother of all echoes because she basically mirrors and expresses consciousness energy from those around her. She can feel them: What they think, who they are, probably even down to their experiences and can probably effectively emulate them to near enough the same degree. On one hand, this could be extremely dangerous if she were a manipulator. On the other, this would effectively help her understand to the deepest levels and allow her to "heal" on that level.

On the same topic of healing and manipulation, a quote extract, or several (these aren't mine):

Quote

 

"Manipulation is done through propelling events or selected ones into motion. it is done through teaching, through example, and through conviction. And the greatest of manipulations are not manipulations at all, but awakening others to the truth of what you believe, of hearing it echoed around you in life."

"It requires that one be able to feel the critical point within the fractured mass and know how to strike it in such a way that the echos travel to your intended destination."

"Healing is manipulation, and if you do not realize it yet then you will soon discover that an act of healing depends largely on your perspective."

 

These statements don't necessarily imply that manipulation is a bad thing or that healing = manipulation = bad or even that manipulation by itself with or without definition is "good" but allows the understanding of contrast between two sides of the same coin.

Edited by Inquisitor

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The ability to observe and understand multiple timelines at the same time brings us closer to a more objective truth.

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@Garnet, I don’t get what you mean.  Are you just using the word “timeline” as a synonym for “perspective”?    I can get the idea of “the ability to observe and understand multiple perspectives at the same time brings us closer to understanding”

Here is a link

http://ascensionglossary.com/index.php/Timelines

here is a Quote:

Within the creational mechanics of the holographic structure which manifests the Harmonic Universes there are two timelines per dimensional octave. So within our Harmonic Universe,( see the Universal Time Matrix ), making up the reality of 3D earth, within the three dimensions (1-3D), we have six timelines.

 

If that is what you @Garnet and @Inquisitor are talking about, I totally do not get it.  Someone has to translate for my 3D mind to comprehend.  Maybe the link just confuses the matter.

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The basic principle of this is what you think and feel and choose directly impacts your local and global timeline. For example, I've used this example before where a person might be seeing on the news that say's "the apocalypse is coming" where they shift into a timeline spectrum where events will regulate based on the person's frequency to them specifically. Their fears, hopes, choices and beliefs will align to that specific resonance. Not just on a conceptual basis but on a literally reality changing basis, potentially resulting in the "foretold" event to occur. This is basically how premonition and future seeing works when involving clairvoyant psychic ability. You see what you most resonate to. If you "believe" or the more you believe something will occur - I.e. the more you focus, hope or worry about it, the more likely it will occur.

To better explain this, a video b Gigi Young on Timelines: 

 At 14:00 to 14:30 and from 18:00 to 19:45

 

Edited by Inquisitor

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I watched the segments of the video.  But I think your explanation of timelines was better.

It has been my experience where two people seem to be in different universes based on their perceptions of reality.  For example, MR seems to be in a universe where everyone is an asshole and he treats people as such.  Many times I have tried to reach out across the dimensions and explain how my perceptions are different.  He thinks I am a phony and lying to him.  In terms of actual physics, I don’t believe in multiple dimensions.  But to say “dimensions” seems to be a way to get the idea across.

The way you explain timelines makes it sound like the mechanism through which the Law of Attraction might work.   i do not fully accept the Law of Attraction.  I admit that sometimes there does seem to be an intelligence that organizes the universe.  I’m not sure where that intelligence is located (it might simply be in my own head.).  

Edited by Scot

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1 hour ago, Scot said:

Many times I have tried to reach out across the dimensions and explain how my perceptions are different.  He thinks I am a phony and lying to him.  In terms of actual physics, I don’t believe in multiple dimensions.  But to say “dimensions” seems to be a way to get the idea across.

Dimensions aren't like timelines. It's more like a layering system, like 1st, 2nd, 3rd. Most people see up to 11 or 12. Physical reality is said to reside in the 3rd dimension, regardless of timeline. The lower the reality the more the limitation or the more.. "solid" is the wrong word because it's not referring to physical structure, but all the same, the more fixed something seems. The more tangible or less abstract it is. It's sort of like being tied to a ball on a chain. The higher the dimension, the longer the chain until there is no ball or chain altogether. An inaccurate analogy but it makes it's point.

2 hours ago, Scot said:

he way you explain timelines makes it sound like the mechanism through which the Law of Attraction might work.   i do not fully accept the Law of Attraction.  I admit that sometimes there does seem to be an intelligence that organizes the universe.  I’m not sure where that intelligence is located (it might simply be in my own head.).

I'm guessing you've seen Teal's 'Fuck the Law of Attraction' video.

Most seem to think this "intelligence" is the collective consciousness.

As to quote Dumbledore: "Of course it's in your head, but why should that mean it's not real?" 

I do have a problem with the concept of karma as it can be a redundant concept, especially through the lens of "deserving" or justification, since everything is only as it can be observed then interpreted by default of stimulus reaction on a physical, mental or emotional level. Even this greater intelligence would still apply to the same principles. It wants to understand, learn and experience through the lens of perspective incarnation. Some might argue that this "organization" is merely a connection that a sentience can make relative to it's own perspective of what organization is or means within their own understanding. It is present upon when it could be recognized.

 

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Personally I would rather we all use the word “dimension” the way it is used in physics and mathematics but spiritual people have adopted the word and there really is no way to go get them to stop using the word.

In physics and mathematics, spatial dimensions are used in a coordinate system to specify a location in space.  We live in a 3D universe because we can specify location using distances up/down, left/right, forward/back.   Actually we live in a 4 dimensional universe because it you want to meet someone you need to specify both the location and the time to meet.

In spiritual circles, the word dimension is used very differently.   It is used to describe “layers”.  I really don’t know much about these so-called layers.

 

as far as the Law of Attraction, I only just now watched “Fuck the Law of Attraction”.  Seems to me that Teal’s assertion that “what is happening is meant to happen because it is happening” could be equivalent to “random things happen randomly”.  

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3 hours ago, Scot said:

Personally I would rather we all use the word “dimension” the way it is used in physics and mathematics but spiritual people have adopted the word and there really is no way to go get them to stop using the word.

It is essentially the same thing. Two dimensional plain being a single surface, such as a side of a dice, the dice itself being a 3 dimensional object.4 is time 5, and so on where compounded comprehension comes in.

 

3 hours ago, Scot said:

as far as the Law of Attraction, I only just now watched “Fuck the Law of Attraction”.  Seems to me that Teal’s assertion that “what is happening is meant to happen because it is happening” could be equivalent to “random things happen randomly”.  

Law of attraction is essentially one big unnecessary mechanic. I.e. "Why does so-and-so 'need' to / 'must' happen because of so-and-so." The same can also apply to "why not?"

Edited by Inquisitor

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On 3/10/2018 at 9:53 AM, Inquisitor said:

This is half the problem I have when attempting to propose an extended inference that might not align with preconceived comprehension such as "only physical reality exists and that's all there is because there is no evidence of anything else." Not everyone would think like that, I'm sort of just using MR's example of "everything is what it is because I'm objectively right."

You have it backwards.

I'm right because an objective world exists independent of your beliefs or awareness of it.

 

On 3/10/2018 at 9:53 AM, Inquisitor said:

The thing I was trying to get at though, which is actually considerably risky in regard to those who aren't really to into the spiritual fields is that your consciousness or subconscious has the ability to control your reality. To what extent it depends. Timelines for example. Most people don't see or believe it because they think what they see in front of them is "the" objective reality that cannot be altered. They see something on the news and think "that is real and cannot be prevented because it's happening now" but that is because  your choices and beliefs such as fears or desires etc have aligned you to that specific timeline where that event occurred.

Making yourself believe the opposite of objective reality will make you go insane.

Changing a subjective reality in the form of a negative and false self-belief, however, could be beneficial.

Denying objective reality does not work.

 

On 3/10/2018 at 9:53 AM, Inquisitor said:

I expect I'd get some backlash for that statement because some might either won't understand how or because I can't "objectively" prove it or that I'm pulling from my ass or even because that kind of thing is simply "not real" or "does not exist."

This doesn't make you correct.

 

 

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I'm right because an objective world exists independent of your beliefs or awareness of it.

Quote

Making yourself believe the opposite of objective reality will make you go insane.

Refer to video 3

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Denying objective reality does not work.

Forget timelines, I'm going to keep this simple.

Denying is different to understanding. How you got to that current state still happened via events or circumstances that occurred to get you in that position. You are still "there" but the reasons are dependent on how you got there effectively governed by LoA and manifestation. The point I've been trying to make the whole time is LoA is the key. Our thoughts aligned with our intentions, emotions and desires and fears align certain events to occur in relation. That thing happened on the news because of the current state you were at the time caused them to, effectively altering the reality around you. Not just subjectively though, like, you could fear there might be a terrorist attack or something, then eventually somewhere down the line, that actually occurs.

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This doesn't make you correct.

 

 

 

Doesn't make me or anyone incorrect, but equally.

 

The videos are for anyone to comment on. I'm only making specific reference this once. if you want to say that's wrong, false inaccurate etc, actually bring something more than a statement, like I have above rather than "that's false because I'm right." If you have a valid point, show not tell, otherwise it removes your right to complain.

Edited by Inquisitor
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Regarding the double slit video:

Nobody in this thread has said the following but the narrator says words to the effect “the electron acts like it knows it has been observed”.  This implies some level of consciousness on the part of the electron.  My understanding is that physicists do not propose that electrons have consciousness.

1- de Broglie theorized that all matter/energy behaves like both particles and waves.  There is a calculation that involves mass as speed and then you can calculate the wavelength . (I just googled for the equation. It’s called the deBroglie equation and wavelength = h/(mv)  m is mass, v is velocity, h is the Planck constant.)

2- Heisenberg postulated that at the quantum level you can know where something is or how fast it is going (but not both and only within some tolerance). And the fact that you measure it, changes it.

The double slit is a very interesting outcome of the truths that de Broglie and Heisenberg pointed out.  But consciousness on the part of the electron isn’t necessary to explain the phenomenon.

Edited by Scot

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