Pastor George

"The universe hates me."

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"The universe hates me."

So someone not in this group posted this on Facebook at about 3am. I replied from my not quite awake state, "The universe doesn't hate you, u hate u." Admittedly this was a knee-jerk reaction from someone who has spent decades struggling with my own self image, addiction and unwillingness to see the world as it is, in favor of seeing the world as I want or wish it to be. The universe doesn't hate you, you are part of it and as such, one with it, but it doesn't hate you, if anything it doesn't care. From a Christian perspective God loves you but the universe is his creation. Bad things, unpleasant things, difficult things happen to all of us. The difference is how we see them, how we deal with them, our attitude. We can either have an attitude of gratitude or we can be angry, or miserable, or helpless. My "u hate u" comment was met with angry responses. @Crystal Rob you've been through this. Suddenly, she and all her friends were attacking me for being insensitive, mean and abusive. I admit it! I wasn't considering her feelings, I was merely pointing out what i see as a universal truth.

I the process of having this conversation I realized what I was seeing was a very transparent example of what i see a lot of here and on Teal Tribe Facebook page. People asking for sympathy. "I feel bad, help, send me love!" Well yes, we feel what we feel, good to ask for help, love, positive energy, but it seems like this too is an example of codependency. If we reward the people we love for being sick, they will continue to be sick so they can continue to have our love and attention and sympathy. if we reward addicts they continue to be addicts, if we reward victims, they continue to be victims and we feel like we are helping them feel better until we run out of resources. How are we helping if we are enabling their addiction, misery, sickness etc? Tough love? Hard truths? Rejection? Bitter pills at best. So what r u gonna do? What am i gonna do?

From a behavioral perspective the only way to extinguish an unwanted behavior is to replace it with another, hopefully more positive, behavior. Thoughts?

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Anger reflects anger. So if you are angry, chances are you are going to meet someone who is angry too. Why did it matter that someone was angry with you? I could get angry with you here. I do a lot. 
Well for me, it matters, (becomes material) because then we are angry too, if someone gets angry with us, we naturally take on some of that. And angers fine, it does things for us, moves us, protects us, points us to the pieces of ourselves that hurt, but nobody wants to be there 24/7. It'd be hell, you feel the nerve endings fried inside.

That's my take on anger, from someone who gets angry quite a lot. Who is around a lot of it. In places where people get angry. 

Anger is not a constructive emotion, its a destructive emotion. So it depends on your goal. If you goal is get the heck out of this situation or protect someone or some piece of yourself, anger works for you.
If its to reach a consensus or build some sort of rapport with someone, very rarely will it get you there.

So when someone comes on and says help me I feel powerless. Anger could help them yes. But unless they've got some idea where they are going or what they are doing, then its just like throwing rocks at a wounded person on the ground. For me grief often comes before anger, sorrow, sadness, crying for that part of you that is powerless, holding that. That's what I feel after I feel powerlessness. But  powerlessness has its place too. Its a powerless feeling that puts me on the floor, but maybe I needed to be on the floor at that point for whatever that is going to happen next to happen next. That had to be okay in me too, because there was feeling inside of me buried by it and I was never going to get to them without feeling powerless. I can guarantee you now its a step up from avoiding numbness or despair. 

I've been in a lot of resistance to the type of thinking you are looking at here. A lot of resistance. A lot of anger about it. Because its angry :D, it comes from a place of anger. Angry at seeing so many victims. And the cycles that keep repeating for them,and me to remain there. But we are all victims, and we all champions. We are all weak, and strong. I know this inside now.

Take an example. A lot of people i've met in the last couple of days feel superior to others, its a vibration I can see in people now, at one time I think I did as a way to protect myself too. So they get angry and into this state when they feel this part of themselves touched upon. They might not want to admit it at first, but that's why they are angry. Its a piece of themselves they have not acknowledged, and usually won't until you poke their ego if you feel in the mood for a belt of anger and truth in the face :).

Don't know what the discussion was, and I am certainly not calling you or anyone superior. This is a general observation of my experience of people i've met recently. It could be not acknowledging they like to behave in a certain way, so they get angry when that is touched upon rather than admit it. Other times its because they are protecting themselves, or wanting to move away, or you are threatening their identity in some way etc.

Is there some part of you that's powerless and that's really hard to acknowledge or be around. I'll give you a hint because you've been there for me a lot, there is in everyone.

Hope it helps




 

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I think we all get stuck from time to time, and we need a little love and support to help us get back on track.   But I see this as “inter-dependency” and I think it’s a good thing.

But sometimes it seems that people can be unfillable pits of despair.  If someone has a strong savior complex or a need to rescue and they find a person who is an unfillable pit of despair then I think that is a recipe for co-dependency.   I watched a Teal video this morning where she says that sometimes the “savior” will actually keep the person they are trying to rescue in distress because the “savior” has a need to be needed. 

I think we all need to get to the point where we feel:  I am okay.  sure I mess up now and then and I will try to not mess up but deep down, I’m actually a good person.  And for the most part other people are okay too.  Sure they mess up now and then but deep down most people on this planet are good people”.   (I’m okay. You’re okay)

With your message “The universe doesn’t hate you. U hate u” I think you were saying that this person needs to come to the belief that he or she is actually okay.  

Some people seem to use “honesty” as an excuse for being rude.   We should try to avoid that.

And lastly, I think speakers/writers imply and listeners/readers infer.  Sometimes writers might write something that makes an implication that they  did not mean to make (but subconsciously they do believe.  Freudian slips).  but on the other hand sometimes we make implications that we just don’t mean and don’t believe on any level (I would call those mistakes.)   On the other hand, readers can infer things that the writer simply did not mean to say.  Inferences come from the subconscious mind of the listener and inferences can be very much colored by how the listener feels about the writer and how they feel about themselves.

 

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It brings me back to the topic To Help or Not to Help, and to think do I want to  been kicked servant in to my face.  

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I was watching another video yesterday.  (Not Teal). 

There is a continuum from “True Altruism” where the help provider has good emotional health to “Proud Helper” where the help provider provides help out of his or her basic need to be needed.   “Proud helper” is not in good emotional health, just average.   The continuum continues over to full on “co-dependency” where the help provider supports negative behaviors and may even discourage healthy behaviors because of the co-dependent’s feel need to be needed.   This is not healthy.

https://youtu.be/ZQg9_p_Fous

i think we can should support each other’s good emotional health and positive behaviors.  We should not “enable” which is allowing others to continue unhealthy or self-destructive behavior.

Now on another side of things, if someone believes that the world is a horrible terrible place and we need to protect ourselves from it, and that person takes it upon himself to toughen other people up by being insulting or providing “real world experience” then I think I would call that gaslighting and it is unhealthy, in my opinion.  We should work towards trusting each other, not the other way.

Edited by Scot
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3 hours ago, Adi123 said:

A POSITIVE support system is virtually non-existing in society today & very much needed. Rephrase your input in a more positive light. :5:

What is needed is awareness. If we condemn the notion/meaning of hatred, if we condemn to hate ourselves, to admit ourselves that we hate each other,  or i would rather say to admit we don't like each other/ourselves, then do we still need positive? Or do we need awareness that the negative, is actually just, is? It just is. 

In the end, every place every collective has different needs, holds different frequencies and stages of development, every individual needs different things. One needs support and positivity and encouragement, other needs awareness of the shadow and the negative, and how it doesn't have the effect we assign it., Third needs laughter, forth needs material support and basic needs satisfied.... 

I do like how you rephrased that. George just had a different approach, and i think he himself was in that kind of mood, so...

Edited by Mai-da
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Hi @Adi123, you have no idea how much you help(ed) (me) with this last post, especially with the self exploration, questioning part. Thanks a lot  ... ❣

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3 hours ago, Adi123 said:

 Realize that like attracts like & the more you think you are hated, the more you will be hated. Start by showing yourself love & care & keep a positive vibration / grateful journal to overcome your negative thinking".

A POSITIVE support system is virtually non-existing in society today & very much needed. Rephrase your input in a more positive light. :5:

It depends how quick anger moves through you. It can be cleansing if it is in the moment and done. If it sticks with you for a quite some time, maybe a few days. That's going to put you in angry situations, but otherwise its just going to roll through you.
At least me anyway, nothing manifests quickly for me. Forget what teal says about 5 minutes, for me it takes a month of concentrated effort if not more, that's the reality I am in. I know it can be faster, I've experienced that, but I feel that's reserved for higher(faster) vibratory states. 

Why is anger NEGATIVE :)
Anger is just anger. No more or less. What we do with it, that's on us.

Chances are high though that this thread may produce anger eventually :D
 

Edited by Mark Joseph Middleton
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35 minutes ago, Adi123 said:

You do need to integrate those shadows through self love & acceptance so those intense emotional triggers don't happen. If you don't, overtime, you will become an adrenalin junkie.

I just want to complement you here, because many people force self love ok, and I can see you seem maybe just to me, attached to the positive focus as a way of healing, totally legit, just that many aren't there yet, to me integration of the shadow is becoming shadow yourself, integrating it, which is beyond self love and acceptance, but it includes both aspects, love AND fear, in the end. Something like that. 

Also, is that how people become adrenaline junkies?! I like those people, because I easily go on the other extreme of expression, very passive, so yeah, balance is key :)) anyway, is that how we become adrenaline junkies? Lots of anxiety turned into adrenaline? This is what I understood :S

P.s. that was/is an awesome excerpt  from the workshop

Great post btw

Edited by Mai-da
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Thank you all for your comments here it really helps me to see myself through the lens of your perspectives. Yes @Mark Joseph Middleton i have a lot of anger lately and i feel it is leading me to a lesson about my self. Something very deep that triggers my neurotic grandmother's scripts within me! Things buried from when i was very young. i know I over reacted and was rude because this kind of self-hate is the very thing i have struggled many years to overcome in myself. Also i think this particular interaction was instructive for me to see what I was hearing from many in Teal's community in simpler language. It reflects issues I've had with trusting women since childhood. It illuminates issues that I'm having with the women I live with currently. @Adi123 is right, but too late, I spent 10 years working as an EMT and rose to EMS director I was already a serious adrenaline junky so it's not hard to understand why I would be attracted to the drama and intensity of anger and haters attacking me. That may be one of Teal's issues too. She attracts the negative feedback to feed the need for conflict born of her early abuse!? You become an adrenaline junky when you develop such an appetite for extreme danger, stress or abuse that without it you don't feel normal or alive. PTSD from being in combat is an extreme form of this.

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11 hours ago, Adi123 said:

Yes. Anger is like an emotional bolt of lightning. It is intense, sudden, emotional arousal. Hanging onto energy like that without direction is harmful.  And it's release doesn't need to be negative. In fact it can be very revealing: it shows you where your touchy, sensitive parts are. So like lightning, it casts a flash of light on your own shadows.

And it can be experienced as cleansing, because letting all that emotion out can be very cathartic. It's how you choose to let it out & reflect on it that makes the difference. If you just attack, scream & swear, you will not only hurt others, but will experience shame & guilt afterwards. Shame & guilt breeds fear & so it becomes a negative behavioral cycle.

Anger builds up subconsciously overtime until it "explodes", so it's necessary to work on those shadows over time. Anger masks pain. You need to drop the anger to experience the pain. I've been there. I was like a raging war goddess for 2 years after loads of trauma. And one day I said to myself, this is not who I am nor want to be. I made a conscious decision not to carry that anger anymore, but then I felt the pain - I cried nearly everyday for almost a year, but I faced & experienced the pain & moved through it. It wasn't easy.

There are positive ways to release anger, like jogging, or chopping wood, ...or in my case doing the dishes or digging that new garden bed I've been putting off for weeks. Anger can really fuel your body because of the adrenaline rush, but it's not healthy to strictly apply positive outlets all the time. You do need to integrate those shadows through self love & acceptance so those intense emotional triggers don't happen. If you don't, overtime, you will become an adrenalin junkie.

You can also ground the energy into the earth with positive intention, practice deep breathing and / or walk away from the situation until you have calmed down

But we're only human & none of us are perfect, so we all get angry at times. Just use that energy carefully when you do let it out.

May I suggest the follow video of Teal where she explains antisocial shadows & how to integrate them. 

 

 


@Adi123
Thanks for the video link i'll have a watch later today at a lunch break.

For now I've done what you are trying to tell me to do. It didn't work. Some parts of me couldn't be reached by a positive focus outlook to life, so I was in this self loving high spiritual state while still avoiding parts of myself. I needed my anger, my shame, my guilt, my love, my joy, my elation, my sorrow, my apathy, my acceptance. I needed all of myself and always will.

Yes I can hurt others. How much shame and guilt I feel for doing so depends how much of it is reflected in them after i've said what i've said. Because i'll be feeling that too during the conversation. I can be angry and not be attacking someone, angry and trying to lift someone up from powerlessness for example or defending someone or something. If I am angry and trying to tell someone how life is, to tread on their identity then yes I might feel shame and guilt. So I am very clear here, I am using 'I', not 'you', because I respect your identity and what you've been through. Am I a junkie for emotions? I can respect that I could get to a point where I want to feel too much, just like I did with spirituality, but after having the opposite for 30 something years I ain't there yet :D

@Pastor George

Part of me wants to shout at you and say there is no such thing as an overreaction and the other part of me wants to say, if you thought it was, then it was for you :) But its your decision either way on that, there is no one else that can set that standard or belief in what is the right 'expression'. I've stopped doing so. I express what I feel and sure sometimes I feel like framing it in a thought, or like here giving you two sides of it. 

One part I see in your words. Do you see how you assign a victim-like role to the person attracting conflict? In reality both people involved in the conflict made the situation happen. Both of them were victims and both of them perpetrators. If you want to frame it like that. Me I just see it is a natural part of life. There were no victims in the conflict if they both went into it willingly. I am not talking about a man beating down his wife here, or a mum abusing her son, I am talking about two people who come together and argue. It's just an argument then it's done. If the anger can roll through you and then be done. If you don't hold on to it. If you don't worry about it as much. Worry about what you say to someone sure, but I can give you a more personal example.

@Mai-dahas helped me see people are not all made of glass. They won't all run off when I get angry with them. They'll still be there afterwards. It's meant a heck of a lot to me that I have that example in front of me now, of someone who is capable of holding anger and being honest. They feel whatever they feel afterwards, then they are honest with me about it and the entire exchange is said and done. So what I am I saying, it depends who you are with @Pastor George. Their capacity. Do you see how some people would just shrug at all of this and say that was like a walk in the park, a bump in the road, and others would make a huge deal out of it, would never speak to you again, habor resentment for days to come? A resentment that they don't express for whatever reason, so you feel it. Probably because they too were told anger was bad, wrong or negative, so they hold on to it, and don't speak it.

Edited by Mark Joseph Middleton
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1 hour ago, Adi123 said:

First of all, I approach  entering my shadows with love & understanding, because I realize those fragmentations occurred to protect me. The me that feels vulnerable, scared & that's in pain. I have many shadows of my own that still need integration. I grew up with an alcoholic father & needy mother - this kind of thing messes you up for life - but I have always told myself it's not my fault & lived with a sense of self-love and sincerity for myself, because I realized no one else is doing it for me.

Secondly, an adrenalin rush can turn into an addiction. It's a necessary survival instinct that serves us - it has it use. Addiction suppresses emotion which can limit integration. I am a heavy smoker - nobody's perfect.

Thirdly, I've noticed that when I reply in forums & social media - it's almost as if I'm channeling. My life is far from perfect & I don't normally write like this in my own journals. I don't force it - there's a very centered, loving presence that comes forth from within when I write here.

Lastly, can someone please tell me how to tag people in replies?

This will be my last reply here. I need to spend my energy on other things for now. 

Lots of love to you all.

 

I was raised by an alcoholic father and a sort of similar mother too. And i also channel. We are all capable of that, specially on this forum, lots of people do it all the time. Writing and not uttering what you would like to say/share, is a very subtle way of expressing, why we enter the subconscious easily. But we need to unravel some stuff first, be honest with ourselves in writing, and rest... 

To tag, just put @ ,and the name. 

"This will be my last reply here. I need to spend my energy on other things for now. " I was hesitating whether to reply because of this sentence. You don't even need to say this. You spending energy here is not ultra precious and/or valuable. It is of course to a degree very valuable, but noone depends on anyone here, so there's no need to say you are not going to reply. I felt hurt and insulted, so just wanted to share the perspective. It's never over until all sides agree on that, and it doesn't have to be a verbal agreement. It's an exchange of feelings, thoughts. If you respect yourself enough, you would know what i mean. 

Edited by Mai-da
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On 2/12/2018 at 2:02 AM, Pastor George said:

From a behavioral perspective the only way to extinguish an unwanted behavior is to replace it with another, hopefully more positive, behavior. Thoughts?

Hey @Pastor George et al, I'm coming back to the initial question (and since my name was mentioned, say what!).. it actually doesn't help to overthink some things we say and do - but then again the law of attraction is that we will trigger alright according to the other person being an internal match to how we subconsciously (or sometimes consciously) see things ourselves. No other way to explain it; we are who we are because of our own experience filters. We all react to what others say; can't help it we're human... but it then comes down to how much respect we have for what is being kindly put in front of us to learn from; (remembering here that the Universe is giving us what we are asking for); so if it's conflict and self-justification then that's what'll happen; if it's a mutually agreed disagreement then that's what'll happen; if it's mutual trust and inter-dependancy, than that's what will happen...

Remember this is all contacting others to have your opinion heard, respected and then maybe someone else will see some light in what you or others have to say. So Pastor George, yes I learnt from my outbursts; in that it was not my place to interpose my opinion onto someone else; yet there was a sense of care that I felt because someone would blindly treat their body with contempt by what they were eating and simply not realise what they were doing. But in the end, hey, that's theirs to deal with. So I 'cured' that by letting it go.

I do like to be contentious somethings though - and I guess we can all be guilty of putting a slap in the face out there... gotta admit to that.

So you could say that the outcome to any of these posts and forums is to shine light where we can for others. There are some beautiful examples above this reply from Scot, Mark JM, Mai-da and even Pastor George. So I believe that is actually the key thing here, about how two people or more can discuss something and see both perspectives or all perspectives and take something and learn from it - that being because our own experience filters are unique and we should never blindly just accept what someone else says - the trick is to 'know thyself'.

So, with the help of Teal and all the other beautiful people here who take the time and effort to add to forum discussions, I personally thank you all for any contribution you may have. (Back pat yourself).

crystal Rob

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