DavidFindley

spiritual development and not egoic development, please

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spiritual development and not egoic development, please

I am very impressed with your videos. The last one was extremely clever, (though I think that it is better to address the root of the problem of criminal behaviour, [criminal and generally degenerate culture,] than trying to rehabilitate criminals.. 'fixing' the symptom and ignoring the [greater,] cause..

But I find your very interesting discussions on fragmented ego extremely lacking without discussion of True Self, (Oversoul, or Source .. I like 'Source' a lot, didn't I get that from you...) 

So for example I watched your last video, looked for a shame self ...  quickly said fuck it and move directly to source, transcending 'all egoic selves' simultaneously to attain, even if briefly, pure, quiet awareness.  ...simply am not interested in trying these convoluted 'integration' exercises. (according to your theory, IS there even a consistent 'self' individual, or is the ego merely a collection of selves each reflecting their circumstance? ..so what do you integrate a 'lesser' self into, exactly..? which 'one' is really 'me'?  ....)

I've developed methodologies for helping people 'transcend' egoic self to experience 'true self' (source,) but I won't share that here as I am planning to put it in my own book here eventually.  ...maybe you can talk about it so I can glean your wisdom a little bit... 

...you know I'm right ... I hope...  if you need to be clever to be profitable, I understand .. but.. I hope you understand yourself... There is no self help that isn't directly reverting to true self...

 

Edited by DavidFindley

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In some ways, I think moving "straight to Source" might count as "spiritual bypassing".   

I'm reading a book called "Eyes Wide Open:  cultivating discernment on the spiritual path"   I haven't finished reading it yet but it seems to me that the book is about traps and pitfalls along the path to enlightenment (whatever exactly that is).  

Here is a quote:

“Any authentic spiritual process takes the deep unconscious material within us—as well as all of our fundamental confusions and illusions about the human condition and the nature of mind—and brings it to the surface of our awareness, so we can see it for what it is and discover how to relate to it in an effective manner. This is a demanding and lengthy process that often brings us to our knees, at times leaving us wondering if ignorance really is bliss—while knowing that we could not return to that state of ignorance even if we wanted to.”

Excerpt From: Caplan, Mariana. “Eyes Wide Open.” Sounds True, 2009-01-01. iBooks. 
This material may be protected by copyright.

Check out this book on the iBooks Store: https://itunes.apple.com/us/book/eyes-wide-open/id389174722?mt=11

 

One common pitfall: According to this book, most people think of themselves as more spiritually evolved than the average joe.    So guess what.  If most of us think of ourselves as more spiritually evolved or gifted than average then at the very least, half of us are wrong!

 

 

Edited by Scot
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ya joseph, I don't like the way you articulate it, but I think you're basically right.

 

this illusion of self, or collective of selves, fragmented, morphing to adapt and reflect present circumstance ..

what 'this' is is a NEXUS that hosts these selves, ... like the empty center in a wheel; the true self is the empty center, but we confuse it for the spokes, rotating around the center ... perhaps it is primarily because of the body that we have the illusion of a consistent self, or 'default' ego... but that is always in such a flux of change that it is ultimately false.

 

I don't need ego work. I don't need to reunite one spoke of the wheel with another. I need to dwell persistently in the empty center -- and just watch.

....and then when I am liberated from false egoic self....  "I" cease to exist, but simultaneously "I" become everything else, all enveloping.

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When you develop the self you develop the ego since the ego is linked to the self. Nothing is separate from the self since all is interconnected. The ego is the personality which is a manifestation of the self. Everything about you is a manifestation of the self therefore all is the self. The ego only becomes a problem when it is fed with fear and you have completely identified yourself as the ego. The ego is a tool for the self to express itself as a unique individual. Without the ego you would be nothing since the ego is the mind. The soul manifest the ego and the ego manifest the body, but both ego and body are manifested by the self/soul. Mind/ego is the bridge between the body and soul. Mind, body, and spirit are one. When both mind and body are aligned with spirit/self/soul the mind and body will become like the soul in appearance. 

As long as you have an existence you will have an ego/personality. Even astral and angelic beings have an ego. Even God has an ego which is the collective personality.

Edited by Lord Vega

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walt you are such a dumbass. That is basically the opposite of 'enlightenment' and spiritual development.

The ego, (/intellect,) is a vehicle. The vehicle can either drive itself, which is or eventually becomes ego-hell, or 'Source' can be in the driver's seat and steer it towards heaven.

 

walt, why do you post here? 1285 posts ..? what's your problem exactly?

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On 27/08/2017 at 9:16 AM, DavidFindley said:

spiritual development and not egoic development, please

I am very impressed with your videos. The last one was extremely clever, (though I think that it is better to address the root of the problem of criminal behaviour, [criminal and generally degenerate culture,] than trying to rehabilitate criminals.. 'fixing' the symptom and ignoring the [greater,] cause..

But I find your very interesting discussions on fragmented ego extremely lacking without discussion of True Self, (Oversoul, or Source .. I like 'Source' a lot, didn't I get that from you...) 

So for example I watched your last video, looked for a shame self ...  quickly said fuck it and move directly to source, transcending 'all egoic selves' simultaneously to attain, even if briefly, pure, quiet awareness.  ...simply am not interested in trying these convoluted 'integration' exercises. (according to your theory, IS there even a consistent 'self' individual, or is the ego merely a collection of selves each reflecting their circumstance? ..so what do you integrate a 'lesser' self into, exactly..? which 'one' is really 'me'?  ....)

I've developed methodologies for helping people 'transcend' egoic self to experience 'true self' (source,) but I won't share that here as I am planning to put it in my own book here eventually.  ...maybe you can talk about it so I can glean your wisdom a little bit... 

...you know I'm right ... I hope...  if you need to be clever to be profitable, I understand .. but.. I hope you understand yourself... There is no self help that isn't directly reverting to true self...

 

We are Source consciousness, but we are also ego. It's all one, and that's why we need integration as well as transcendence.  

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11 hours ago, DavidFindley said:

 

walt, why do you post here? 1285 posts ..? what's your problem exactly?

I believe that walt honestly means well and I think he is doing what he believes is the right thing.  Walt wants to shake people out of their comfort zone or their status quo.  

A while back, it seemed to me that Walt's basic principle is that we should all be islands unto ourselves.  

Simon and Garfunkel:  "I am a rock.  I am an island.  And a rock feels no pain.  And an island never cries."

But it seems to me that Walt has softened up and has been doling out "real life experience" more gently lately.

 

On the other hand, I think we need to find a balance between standing on our own two feet and  supporting each other's positive behaviour. 

Edited by Scot

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19 hours ago, DavidFindley said:

walt you are such a dumbass. That is basically the opposite of 'enlightenment' and spiritual development.

The ego, (/intellect,) is a vehicle. The vehicle can either drive itself, which is or eventually becomes ego-hell, or 'Source' can be in the driver's seat and steer it towards heaven.

 

walt, why do you post here? 1285 posts ..? what's your problem exactly?

I feel like your approach to enlightenment is very much like Eckhart tolle (who is a master of presence). I don't disagree with you because there are many ways to 'deal' with the ego. Some people use positive focus whereas some people observe and remain detatched from the 'false self' I think we should embrace all ways of thinking and adopt whatever method works best for us. So long as we are not running away from ourselves. 

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In a somewhat harsh opinion: Meditation is mental masturbation.   But you know what?   I'm not strong enough to make it as a meat robot.   I tried for years to NOT pay attention to my feelings or express any sort of "spiritual" leaning (not that I really know what that is) and it got me depressed.  So now, bring on the mental masturbation!   

I'm trying to live life whole-heart-ed-ly and whole-brain-ed-ly.   As fully as I can and as authentically as I can. True to my heart.  True to my brain and the critical thinking that I have tried to apply (at least here and there)

Edited by Scot

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"There is no such thing as a troll with a malicious intention, guess what? They're still trolls."

actually, with the term "Troll" it was originally to be for a person with malicious intent. Now it's used on anyone that can be considered annoying as well. The term has almost lost its meaning.

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...mental masturbation... that's actually pretty accurate description.

why don't we look closely at what is implied by this condescending term. It feels good, it's natural, it's a healing process, it's a release ...  but I feel like there are negative connotations you intend to provoke, like it is ... a waste of time..? ...that there is no point and that it leads us nowhere...?

why don't you elaborate a bit further on exactly what you mean when you call it mental masturbation, and we'll go from there. (or was that more of a knee-jerk reaction on your part?)

 

...I would also suspect that, if you're dismissing it with an insult, that you haven't attained to higher states of bliss and awareness.

I could help you with that... but if you don't help yourself with total sincerity... I won't drop any pearls.

 

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5 hours ago, walt said:

We are mind, body, and soul. The mind encompasses the intellect. The body the feelings. The soul, intuition.

When we believe everything is intellectual we are out of balance. When our heart is open (feelings) our intuition opens (clarity).

I don't know if that's entirely right. Can you elaborate on these statements, especially the last.

Fully, please. I'll read it closely.

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16 hours ago, walt said:

We are mind, body, and soul. The mind encompasses the intellect. The body the feelings. The soul, intuition.

When we believe everything is intellectual we are out of balance. When our heart is open (feelings) our intuition opens (clarity).

I would like some more explanation of this as well.  

But for now, I'd like to say that what you are saying here has to qualify as a "model".   Human being are very complex and descriptions like these are meant to explain (although perhaps they simplify) our own experiences and the experiences of others.  So here are a couple of models:

Freud's model:  Freud was one of the first in Western science to say that we have a subconscious mind.  Within the subconscious, he said we have an "id" which basically gives us animal or child-like impulses, and we have a "super-ego" which is an internalized "parent" which basically gives us moral, upright, "do the right thing" impulses and the ego is the conscious thinking mind which is supposed to make rational decisions about whether to follow the id or the super-ego.

Good wolf/Bad wolf model:  Within our subconscious, there is a side that is loving and wants to connect.  And there is a side that is angry, it divides, it hates but it is there to keep us safe.  How we act is a function of which dog is winning in the fight that goes on within us.  The dog that is stronger is the one that you feed but neither dog can kill the other.   ( @DavidFindley It seems to me that you are stuck in the angry wolf towards other races and Christians.).    Please note the similarities between the wolf model and Freud's model.  In both cases, there are impulses that come out of the subconscious mind that may or may not be controlled by the conscious mind.

Jung's model:  http://journalpsyche.org/jungian-model-psyche/

So now @walt model:  it would seem that "mind" or intellect is the conscious mind, "feelings" are sensations from the body, and "soul" (which Walt says intuition comes from) is what Freud and Jung would call the subconscious.  

 

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2 hours ago, walt said:

Freud and his peers lacked awareness. As we are spiritual beings living a human life knowledge of energetic and intentional influences has changed the game. 

The game could not have changed.  What we are talking about is our understanding and ability to describe the game.  

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