moonpriestessa

World Religions, War and Entheogens

20 posts in this topic

World Religions, War and Entheogens

Not sure if this is the right place to post this. Also I apologise in advance if this comes across as ignorant or offensive for that is not my intentions at all.

Now, I was just studying world religions and drug use for a little bit there, as I was aware that some of the saddhu men of Hinduism partake in cannabis and datura smoking as a spiritual practise. I'm also aware of the ayahuasca ceremonies that happen and the Rastafarian smoking rituals too. As I was trying to find out more about other world religions and entheogenic or drug use as a spiritual practise I found out some interesting things that led to an interesting thought...

Basically I discovered that Christianity and Judaism and Islamic religions pretty much all deny the use of such substances. I've had a hard time finding information that contradicts this. 

Then I had the thought that the nations currently at war at the moment are predominantly those religions sects, and I thought that was very interesting too. ( Obviously both sides have a mix of all religions in them, but predominantly those ). This is just an observation I made, or rather an assumption based on the geography of the warring nations ( the US vs. The Middle East).

Also ( now I don't know whether this is true because for all we know neither of these figures exist, and if I did, this obviously isn't necessarily true, however ), it has been claimed that both Muhammad and Jesus were paedophiles - not trying to offend anyone again, but a quick google search will show you that it is not something I'm making up (Also not saying I support these claims, just stating that they are supported ).

However if you compare them to other religions, that do use drugs and even sex as part of their spiritual practises, it seems that maybe this is potentially more evidence of how Christianity, Judaism and Islamic religions were created to control the masses rather than benefit the spirit of the people. I personally don't agree with religion of any kind, but rather elements of all the religions, because I believe to an extent that all religions have been morphed out of the fundamentals they were built upon to control the people.

I do believe in the benefits of entheogens ( when used responsibly and in a spiritual setting ), such as Ayahuasca ( although I don't agree with Ayahuasca tourism and the current demand for it, although perhaps that is a necessary symptom of our current world state...), and I feel that these things have been in our culture since the dawn of time that they are teachers and healers. They renew our spirit and our connection to the universe. Take them away and we look for something else to guide us, and what better leaders than really corrupt elite who have their own agendas to see through and a nation of hopefuls on either side waiting to be told what to do, because they are disconnected from their spirit. ( That's no lie, I just have to look around me and see so many people who are lost, I'm sure you can see it too. People who just "exist" but do not live, who accept their life circumstances, and the societal systems passively because they feel like they have no control, they feel powerless. They are made to feel that way because of the way society is and I'm sure that is the case all over the world.).

Before I go rambling on and go on a rant I'll stop here. 

Again apologies if I offended, that was not my intention, I'm just looking to open up a discussion.

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1 hour ago, Neptune said:

You're suggesting that Christianity has caused wars. You're entitled to your opinion, but Christianity is a peaceful religion. Harming a child is condemned in the Bible. Jesus said, “But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea” (Matthew 18:6, KJV).

Many people think Jesus used cannabis. There is more evidence of that than him being a pedophile. I haven't seen any evidence of hum being a pedophile. I think L Ron Hubbard started that rumor. He was not a very nice guy!

 

Well, maybe not Christianity itself, but the powers that be that were driving it definitely have. I've been raised Christian, Catholic actually but I denounced it from a very early age, and have and interest in all the world religions. There are parts of Christianity I can definitely agree with but a lot of it I don't. 

Going on the history of Christianity I wouldn't say it is very peaceful. I mean, going into other countries and telling them "our religion is better that yours" and trying to convert them to a common cause, I wouldn't really called that peaceful, nor the methods they used to implement it...it might not be violent all the time but it is just invasive too. Not to mention the history of paedophilia within the church itself. 

There's also lots said in the bible about Jesus touch children, it doesn't say specifically where though ( although I'm sure that's meant metaphorically, at least that's my take on it ). The bible also talks about dragons and was written 200 years after Jesus's death and translated through the ages so how reliable can it be really?

If Jesus used cannabis that doesn't make cannabis a religious sacrement or ritual, since Jesus wasn't actually Christian, his message was of love, Christianity was invented after he died.

43 minutes ago, walt said:

"Christianity is a peaceful religion" Did you mean peaceful as in the Crusades? The Inqusition? The wars of the Reformation? The wars over polytheism versus monotheism? The countless wars between Catholic and Protestant? Or more current war like the Christian Serb genocide of Slav Muslims? Christian Russian genocide of Chechneya and Georgia Muslims? American Christian slaughter of North Vietnamese? American Christian slaughter of Afgani and Iraqi peoples?

I have to say I agree with him on these points. I'm from Ireland, for so long our country was torn at war with the North & South (or The Irish & British ) over Catholicism and Protestantism ( both which are under the same umbrella of Christianity. ). Like people would kill each other based off of those differences and we only signed a peace treaty to end that in '93!

I'm not saying Christianity is  fairly violent, whether church-goers want to accept that or not, it doesn't make it any less true.

59 minutes ago, walt said:

Male centric religions were created to oppress women. The tolerant beliefs of Goddess' that predate male dominate societies are fertility centric.

Regarding drug use; you are a spiritual being having a human experience. No need to color it with spirituality.

I feel that Hinduism is a nice religion for women, although women are treated abhorrently in India...so I don't know that it's any better off....

I just feel that sometimes spirituality can help people connect more to that sense of spirit, regardless of what practise they use: it's all universal, just the ways in which we desrcibe it can vary. 

That said though, growing up a Catholic I never once genuinely ever felt a connection to Spirit. It was all just words to me, and I know I'm not alone in that. The church here was just about money and appearances. Most people in Ireland would attend church because they want to avoid the public scorn of not attending, not for any real belief. Most people I know who are devout christians are some of the shittiest people I know too. Here, the spiritual side of Christianity has all but been wiped out and replaced with a societal obligation. 

It wasn't until I started meditation and learning about other religions and experiencing things on a personal level that I could never put into words ( completely sober mind you ) that Never felt a connection to Spirit, or God, or whatever you wanna call it. 

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19 minutes ago, walt said:

The Indian caste system was abolished in 1950 but it is still prevalent today. This system discriminates against all women.

I was unaware about that, I was more referencing how women in general are treated in India ( domestic abuse in rampant, let alone the unwanted sexual advances towards women, particularly foreigners. ) 

14 minutes ago, Neptune said:

 

I'm not even Christian, freak.

This is so freaking old. Maybe if people spoke up about Walt, instead of rewarding him, something would change about his attitude. Instead, we live in a world where complete idiots are taken seriously instead of REAL people. This website is a perfect example of how messed up this world is and WHY its so messed up. It's the silent bystanders who do NOTHING. I already know it's not going to stop. Walt, scot, and others are going to keep lying about me, keep pretending I'm something I'm not, and I wont get as much as an upvote from all the people I'm trying to help. I don't know why do stuff like this. It never pays off and I get screwed in the end. You'll be left with lying stalking creeps to help you improve your life. What a gift. Yeah. You're welcome.

Now moonpriestessa is going to continue talking to walt as if he's not a malicious troll. That's how sane this place is.

I personally don't know anyone in this board but so far I have had opinions both in agreement and disagreement with both of you on differing topics. No special treatment on my end, literally just responding to both of you at face value.

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First off all you are so on the right track on a few things.

ALL RELIGIONS go back to some kind of ancient use of entheogens to plunge into the grid and bring back usefull messages

and information from the GODS themself.  The originals hyperspacial divers( Shamans ).

I made a video not so long ago about the subject. Go check it out.

And that includes of course, all the submemes religions from the eghypcian people.

But you are missing something darlling. The oldest, and most important of the entheogens).

Watch this to get your mind blown. :)

Entheogens are my thing.  I love them and they love me.

Send me a PM if you wish to know more and join me for a plunge down the ever interesting rabbit hole that is the entheogenic world.

PD: I like the word "psycodelic " better than "entheogen", mind manifestting sound about right!

 

 

Edited by Morpheus Wildcard

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14 hours ago, Neptune said:

Wow. Walt CAN use a search engine.

Fair point. However, Christianity itself doesn't condone violence, at least not the new testament, which is what christianity is based off of. It promotes loving your enemies, whereas Islam promotes putting non-muslims to death. 

Adam, you seem to consider Walt and me to be your enemies. Do you love your enemies?  Or do you hate them and scorn them and scream at them and curse them?

You have said that you aren't Christian.  

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Hi... 

When I go to church I only witness and feel the victim mentality. That is far from high vibration. If you have people convinced in the existence of only one prophet, one god, one reality, if their love and compassion is based on that, it only means they are just convinced, it's a mindfuck, manipulated people become manipulators- far from high vibration. Just an illusion. Which is ok, as long as you seek to know awareness. 

Teal is teaching how to reach these states without the help of psychodelics, thats why i like and appreciate her.  I am personally against psychodelics, but it can be some kind of help. However, point is to accept all of us and direct it and use it towards meaningful life, or actions, or truthful one. However it is, giving away power and not being shown or presented to your own, is again mean of having control. 

Btw, I was once dating a muslim guy.. He was really religious and spiritual, and the only fights we had, were on this subject, he was teaching me the true lessons of Koran, and he was a really good enlightened being trust me. Really sensitive and brave too. What i am trying to say is, the ones that are spiritual, sensitive by nature, or whatever, also real and focused, will always take the good from teachings, will always interpret it with their heart and mind in symbiosis, those who seek truth, will always see, absorb and reflect truth... He was an example of a being on the way to enlightenment, not a muslim, or christian, or jew, whatever. 

I am very interested in the subject, i have always been interested in religions and their effect. Thanks 

Edited by Majda
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16 hours ago, Neptune said:

 

 

I am no expert on the Crusades. I barely no anything about the crusades.  So I went looking for information.    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades

And I found confirmation that indeed the crusades were defense against Islam.  So the video above has confirmation.  Does that mean the crusades were 100% righteous and good?  Not quite.   Because the crusaders also pillaged as they went along and kept the land for themselves instead of returning it to the Byzantines.  So does that mean the crusades were 100% evil and bad?   No, not that either.

Sometimes we want to see things as 100% good or 100% bad, but things are usually not so simple as that.   

Walt is not 100% bad even though he has been compared to a serial killer.

And Neptune isn't 100% bad either although I disagree with much of his political views and I don't like his jokes.

And me? I can't say for sure that I'm 100% good but I can say that I'm not 100% bad. 

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I only went some time ago, to check me there, check the collective in general.. 

i have some points on what u say but would rather go private there

love *

 

Walt a serial killer? 

cool :P

Edited by Majda

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haha, no problem. You seem pretty triggered (now)  though. Help yourself, so i dont need to.

Edited by Majda

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Neptune come on, you are still my friend, why would you group yourself, i can like all of u, some of u, whatever, what you have with some of the ppl here is what You have and it's Your business

However it is :)

i think u are young(er) though, hugs kisses for real **)

Edited by Majda
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Seems to me that Adam's response to Majda and his downvote for her latest post confirms what I have been trying to say:

1/ Adam thinks you have to be 100% with him or else you must be 100% against him.

2/ if you aren't with him he will put up walls, down vote your posts, and call you a tool, or a cuck and make a variety of insults.

Adam might say that I don't know what I am sayIng and that I don't know him.   And he is right.  All I have to go on is his posts.  And as far as I can tell, Adam's latest behavior just proves my point.

Adam:  I'm not trying to insult you in this post. I'm trying to describe you.

previous history would indicate that Adam might scream at me for a post like this one and tell me he is not interested in my opinion.  Well, Adam calls himself a truth seeker but he does not appear to listen to anyone's opinion unless it matches his own.

 

Edited by Scot

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This topic became ad hominem way too fast and I wrote and re-wrote 3 response to different people but kept have to rewrite because I couldn't keep up the pace of the argument - as it got lost in pettiness. 

I'm sorry to the people who participated in this discussion and I didn't get to reply or discuss this with properly. 

Some people raised very good points - to the guy that shared the video about us all being illuminati - well the root of that word, or it means to be "enlightened" which, ironically we are all that. To have control, I do believe we have this to a certain degree, and I can find it easy to believe in a "shadow society" that operates as an elite group behind the on-goings of the world. I believe it would be quite hard to become involved with that group however, no matter how much you meditated to change your frequency/vibration...as the Rastafari believe, that is Armageddon and we should be protecting Babylon..... (at least in my opinion ).

There was so much I wanted to contribute to Walt & Scot and Adam, but I feel like that the points I originally intended to make are now long since past, and honestly I can only rewrite a wall of text so many times (!).

There were many interesting points raised; 
 

Joseph - I liked your point about Christianity and Islam being dangerous in the eyes on the unstable ( and since they are so big they are more likely to be seen by those eyes ). 
I have my own reservations about science ( I've studied it and appreciate it for so much but when it comes to bridging the gap between science and spirituality and/or consciousness, I have my own beliefs there that change how I see science...I studied philosophy too, and a bit of psychology so I guess you can blames those schools of thought for leading me to this conclusion- and life experience!). 

As for the bit you say about people killing each other over religions....see I can agree with that to a point... I feel like religion was thought to be the conditioning agent for creating armies to pit against each other throughout the ages - what better way to control then through fear? Since the last couple centuries though, "God" or the fear of "God's Wrath/Satan" started to lose it's hold over people as people became more comfortable in their surroundings and more financially stable. Thus I believe "Debt" became the new "Satan" and now wars are led by the fear of Debts. Money is the new religion.

I do agree with you on many points you raised though.

Adam, first of I don't believe everyone should do drugs, drugs are not for everyone and they are something that needs to be respected, I do believe they have a place in society though and always have. But I'm obviously not talking about heroin or cocaine or alcohol or meth. I believe those drugs were created ( originally for medicinal purposes obviously), but I mean that the drug culture associated with them has been sustained for a long time because it benefits the people who run the world. Cocaine is a fun drug but it has absolutely no spiritual value at all. It is just a form of reckless escapism. As with most of those addictive chemicals, its not actually the chemicals that cause addiction by themselves, it's the need for escapism from reality that causes the addiction. Someone who is perfectly happy in life can take cocaine and feel no need to take it again. Someone having a really shitty existence on the other hand would become addicted (there's been studies to prove this). 

But htere's also huge money in the cocaine industry. Huge. Sure one of the first things either Obama or Trump did in office was to send troops over somewhere in Afghanistan to monitor poppy fields. [http://www.globalresearch.ca/drug-war-american-troops-are-protecting-afghan-opium-u-s-occupation-leads-to-all-time-high-heroin-production/5358053]

That drug industry and drug culture sustenance also benefits these world leaders when they want to sell the "DRUGS ARE BAD MMMKAY" message because they target all drugs with the same culture and it completely taints people's ideas of what the point of drugs are ( thus people don't ever question the rationale here and just accept the status quo - thus a docile nation is ready to command ). 

Again I'm not saying drugs are for everyone, even the psychedelic ones or plant teachers - but you know what? The spiritual path isn't for everyone either. I believe there's a place for drugs in our society because there always has been since humanity existed. It would be foolish to think the first of our people didn't accidentally ingest mushrooms while foraging - in fact I believe that's the bridge between animal consciousness and human consciousness. Throughout society ( particularly in indigenous cultures who've maintained a similar social structure throughout the ages ) there's generally been a role or "way-shower" person who's a master of teacher-plants and plant medicines who helped society function in tandem with nature. They learned about the world through the teacher plants and advised their leaders with their knowledge. It was one persons role. For example the shamans who would take Ayahuasca, and then go back to their leader to advise about various things, maybe it was medicinal or spiritual or just how to live better for the village and the earth. But not everyone in the village did it, just one person who trained under a shaman for years. I believe we not only should have that role still in society but that it's necessary - Sure even your beloved Moses was believed to have been hallucinating on Shrooms when he discovered the 10 Commandments. That was him fulfilling the role of the much-needed shaman at the time. Perhaps it was such a big deal because at that stage banks were starting to become a thing and maybe humans had been becoming more disconnecting from a life that respected the planet and their spirit and life back then was more focused on political pursuits ( in general as a society ).

I do believe these plants can impart wisdom and ideas or esoteric knowledge which one could never know before.



Majda, I agree. I wish Catholicism was more spiritual, churches can be beautiful places, Jesus's message wasn't bad - the fundamentals of Catholicism are common sense but I agree - to me it also doesn't feel high vibrational. THere's is too much blood, and innocence lost on it's hands. It has now become tainted - not one Catholic person I know is spiritual at all and I'm from a nation of predominantly Catholic people. Those people that attend Church on Sunday, that never question the priest preaching and just kind of do it because it is expected; I find it hard to believe that they understand what it means to be spiritual within that context because they are just like trained dogs. That's how I felt growing up in that religion that it was just about teaching you a dance routine ( Rise, Stand, Sit, Kneel, Eat The Holy Communion, Kneel, Confess, Shake, Stand, Amen ) - no one is doing this because they are spiritual , they are doing it because it is a social expectation. 

I feel that the idea of a male figurehead sitting in the sky judging us is more harmful that good in so many ways. It's also limiting and promote segregation.
At least the Quran doesn't describe Allah as a being of form from my understanding, it is something more universal. 

I agree with you though it is about discovering a more truthful existence, a more connected one. 

I think Buddhism is probably the higher vibration for a religious practice, particularly as most buddhist refrain for eating all animals or doing harm to any other living thing. 
I think Paganism would be up there to as that is centred around the respect to the cosmos and the earth. Obviously the sisterhood and brotherhood aspects too.



PS. Sorry for the wall of text.

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7 hours ago, Neptune said:

I'm sure everyone would be happy if I just agreed.

Unfortunately, life isn't that simple. Some ideas actually are destructive in the long run and some simply are not. The hard part is living in a world with other people who don't understand that.

With regard to Christianity, I find it's a legitimate form of spirituality and the religion itself is sound. This is coming from someone who has had spiritual "source" experiences not while on hallucinogenics or praying to Jesus. It's an internal experience that isn't always visible to someone just looking at you. If you go in any given christian church, you'll find everything from people sleeping, to people having an awesome life-enrichening experience. Depends on where you go. Maybe some churches, however good intentioned they might be, just can't deliver the "goods" quite as effectively as others ("the goods" being communion with God). Still, people go. Bless em. Or, they might like the low-key nature of the church and prefer to keep thier relationship more inward. 

Fair enough, I can respect that. They definitely don't in my country, but my country has suffered abuse from the Catholic church for generations. We've had generations of paedophile priests, and waves people over coming forward now about them, some of them coming 50 years after the facts, some only happening recently. The Magdalene Laundries happened here. Many people in my country were sent to the Priesthood for being gay over the years. There has been literal wars between the North & South in my country were people killed each other over being two sides of the same religion ( Catholic vs. Protestant ). Forgive me for not being pro-Christian. I've sat in churches and had similar communion with God experiences, but that was because I'd already had them in my room meditating and I knew what they were, how to get back into that space - I've even had them at lectures in college. But most people I know that go to church have not had this, they do not understand - and they people that do understand have not gone to church, or at least they have not found it there. But I also realised that it doesn't matter what religion you are: the experience of communing with God is the same in every religion, it's just each religion likes to dress it up differently. And I'll never tear down a church, I believe all churches and temples to be beautiful and a testament to the power of man, and the creativity. I even like Jesus and the stories from the Bible ( but sometimes to me they are just stories, the same as the stories about Krishna/Raddha or Shiva and Kali - sometimes I think it's just easier for me to understand the Hindu stories, than it is to see the spiritual side of the Christian ones. ). I just don't necessarily agree with religion they way it is run today because I do believe it is corrupt, and have seen how Christianity, at least in my country, segregated and corrupted. If Christianity is how you commune with God, good for you.

@moonpriestessa Although I agree with some of your post, I don't agree that psychedelics go hand in hand with spirituality. I've done psychedelics, and what happens is interesting. However, after a point you gain nothing substantial. You come down and return to reality. From there, you're on your own again.  What do you do then? You can trip drugs again, get "spiritual insight", and then back you are again. You'd think people who go back and forth so much would be super human, but they're not. They just trip drugs a lot and want free stuff (not all of them, but many).

That's still why I believe a shaman has a role and drugs aren't for everyone. I've also done a lot of psychedelics in my time. Sometimes they've been profound life-changing experiences, sometimes they've been novelty and fun for a few hours. I would say the profound insights and experiences I've had have stuck with me and led me to esoteric knowledge I would never have stumbled upon otherwise. I'd also like to point out that the times I had the most profound experiences through meditation that changed my life and perception were 9 months before I even tried psychedelics. Maybe that is why, when I did try them that I had such profound experiences because I already had a taste of that understanding sober - because I have many friends that do lots of drugs all the time and they are not spiritual at all - well some of them are and some are just looking to escape. So as much as the drug has the potential to open you up to a world of seeing things and understanding, I think you have to be open to that world already, because the drug is a tool, it only can do so much, you have to do the rest. I believe this is what shamans understand and why they can possess such knowledge and gain insight when working with teacher plants. I think it is all about intentions when you do these things ( and anything ) and most people nowadays have the intention of "wanting to get F-ed up" or "wanting to have a good time". Nothing wrong with the novelty side of those drugs either because thy can be fun, but I agree, that gets old, and adds little value.

On a personal level I was shown things like "The Ouroboros" ( something which I had no knowledge of prior ), and I had a trip that emulated The Tibetan Book Of 
The Dead ( But I wasn't aware of the Book's existence till I was researching my experiences on that trip and came across a book called "The Psychedelic Experience" that described my trip and The Tibetan Book of The Dead, a book I read and since found myself with a new understanding of how to approach death and the spirit and understand the different realms as feeling states etc. I found that book very beneficial to my practise and understanding. So to me they are beneficial, but I don't use them lightly or often. I understand they are not for everyone but I still believe they have their role in our society.

7 hours ago, Neptune said:

ALSO, Trump isn't promoting the drug trade in the middle east. The contrary happens to be the case, because as you said, those drugs fund the elite wannabes and thier agendas. Globalism. Yea. Trump doesn't want that. Lot's of problems there. That was Obama who helped the drug lords over there, not Trump. Yea. :)

I wouldn't say it's promoting the drug trade in the Middle East, I'd more likely say it's protecting the drug trade of your own country (that's just my opinion though...). I also don't agree Globalism. If my country had half a brain they would say how commerce is the new battlefield and all this multinational takeovers are the new empires of the world. There is no loyalty to a country anymore ( although I don't agree with that other, mainly because I have seen nothing in my country to be a patriot for but currently see the need to be united as a human nation with the world...that's another story for another day), however there is loyalty to brands and services. This is the new war.

You can try to judge a person's internal experience from your angle, but you'll fail every time. Trust me, I've tried.

Fair enough I'll keep that in mind, I'm not trying to judge though I am mostly trying to understand. I just can't understand how someone who claims to know god can also claim to be against an entire bunch of people based of their religion. I'm aware that their are pedophiles in the Catholic church, I'm also aware not all Catholics are like this. I'm aware that some Muslims are extremists, I'm also aware not all Muslims are like this. Dublin is a fairly mixed melting pot of cultures today. I've lived in neighbourhoods that are predominantly Muslim, never had an issue with them, they were never on the news for violent behaviour, they walked their kids to and from school just like you would. It's not the religion that makes people violent, it's the person themselves. Muslim countries are 2nd world countries with a whole host of problems that could contribute to uneducated, literal misintrepretations of the Quran. But put back Christianity in a 2nd world country and suddenly some will become a man's property too etc...

From what I know about Peganism, it was actually just a pejoritive term until the 20th century. It never had an official "truth" or organisation at all. One consistant aspect now in neopaganism is "honoring all living beings", but that can be interpreted all kinds of illegal ways, no? It can. If you don't believe people murder in the honor for the person being murdered, well that does happen. Some people are whacko. Just a fact of life. Worshipping nature is moreso Druidism. I find no violence there, which is great, but what else is there? Life is complex, far too complex, I'll say, than what nature worship can handle, especially in today's world. Wait... Islam? Really? You, the outspoken feminist, is defending Islam? Hahahah Ok. You can have your opinion, that's fine. I suspect it's not really your opinion, that Islam is beneficial for humanity, but you sure have the right to speak those words. Thankfully, Christians have the right to speak, too. Christians are winning in popularity over Isalm, even with Islam holding thier populations at gunpoint. Christians may come and go as they please. That says something great to me. 

Well druidism, and paganism and witchcraft all sort of cross-over in my experience, Paganism honours the Sun/Moon cycles, Druidism honours the planet and nature, Witchcraft adds intentions to all these elements and perhaps even science  ( without even realising it maybe ). 

I'm sure it does happen but that is not a problem with the religion inherently, that is a problem with the person. As someone said in this thread earlier, about religions being dangerous based on the people they reach - not all people are predisposed to have sound of mind. I've actually met a woman who was in a cult until she was 19 and finally broke free, sounded like real Eyes Wide Shut stuff. Scientology is one of the biggest cults too here, and around the world ( here they make you cut off contact with your family and you are expected to pay them all your money). I've even met this Hare Krishna monk who wrote this book about sustainable living and it's all very good to read but one of his followers I met is so strange and controlling and was a disaster waiting to happen ( he wanted to turn his rented house into a sublet to people that would only live according to the book and if the rules were broken, he upped the rent - things like no coffee/chocolate, no self-gratification items ( not personal spending), must be vegan, no drink, etc. All well and good lifestyles practises but not when enforced on people ). You've even got that Jesus Complex sanitarium housing all the people who believe they are Jesus. A guy in my country, Savario Bellante, had this and he committed the first act of cannabalism in this country. I don't think crazy is unique to one religion, I believe we all have the potential to do horrible things or to become susceptible to mental illness. 

 

And not a lot of Christians can come and go as they please in the eyes of "the Lord". Yes they can come and go as they please in say the US, or Ireland or the UK, or France, but we are, again 1st world countries. Muslims in these countries can also come and go as they please. So can Hindus, and Druids, and Aborigines. But in the eyes of the Lord, gay people couldn't come as they please. Not even sure if women could for a while ( scorned out thanks to Eve, if anything they were not as liked as men and not as equal ). I'm not condoning what is happening in those countries right now, obviously ISIS is a massive mess that is a bunch of extremists that shouldn't have the power they do, anyone that bombs in the name of Allah, is obviously mentally unwell ( or staged but again that's another story for another day). I'm just saying these things are not all Muslims.

 

5 hours ago, Neptune said:

You can't get much more sexist than Islam. Many women are slaves in Northern Africa, which is Muslim territory. Muslims opress women like no other religion I know of. To even suggest that Christianity is more sexist than Islam is to completely ignore objective reality.

I'd like also to add ... I wouldn't discount a religion simply because it had a female interpretation of God, because I'm not a sexist. :) Are you? 

In fairness the Bible can be treated as sexist ( women are seen as property), and their are instances of Christianity that are not great ( Mormons that have multiple wives, yet it is not okay to have multiple husbands ). In Muslim countries women are very oppressed - and those countries have a lot of issues. But in India (as much as I love Hinduism) women are subjected to regular domestic abuse and violence. In all parts of Africa women are regularly raped and never really educated. I honestly don't believe these things are related to the religions and it's more about the fact that these are 2nd and 3rd World countries and Christianity is based in mostly 1st World countries. These are bigger issues than about religion. It's about education ( which I realise religion plays the role of - but it is not the sole componant ).

I would discount a religion if it had a mono-sex god because that is not universal. If the pinnacle of all existence is a woman, what kind of message does that send to men is not deep down to shame them? It's not about sexism, it's about painting a picture of the absolute being something definable - something that only some of us can identify with, when in reality, god or whatever you want to call it, Spirit, Allah, Brahman what ever - it is the constant life energy that is aware and in all living things. It has no gender ( religion gave it a gender ). You and I at the core of our souls are alive, where share that same conscious self-awareness of being, so is every other living thing on this planet and every thing that exists. When you humanise that thing and even give it a gender it sets up the message that God is something that is only identifiable to a certain group of people therefore the other people must be against god. For example if God is a White male, God cannot be a White Female too or a Black Male or an Iraqi. However, when we say God is something universal - it is no form and yet every form, we can find "God" within each of us, it brings us together rather than separates us. It teaches us respect and breaks down our barriers whether that be between people of different races or plants and animals and trees. 

 

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7 hours ago, Neptune said:

I'm sure everyone would be happy if I just agreed.

Unfortunately, life isn't that simple. Some ideas actually are destructive in the long run and some simply are not. The hard part is living in a world with other people who don't understand that.

With regard to Christianity, I find it's a legitimate form of spirituality and the religion itself is sound. This is coming from someone who has had spiritual "source" experiences not while on hallucinogenics or praying to Jesus. It's an internal experience that isn't always visible to someone just looking at you. If you go in any given christian church, you'll find everything from people sleeping, to people having an awesome life-enrichening experience. Depends on where you go. Maybe some churches, however good intentioned they might be, just can't deliver the "goods" quite as effectively as others ("the goods" being communion with God). Still, people go. Bless em. Or, they might like the low-key nature of the church and prefer to keep thier relationship more inward. 

Fair enough, I can respect that. They definitely don't in my country, but my country has suffered abuse from the Catholic church for generations. We've had generations of paedophile priests, and waves people over coming forward now about them, some of them coming 50 years after the facts, some only happening recently. The Magdalene Laundries happened here. Many people in my country were sent to the Priesthood for being gay over the years. There has been literal wars between the North & South in my country were people killed each other over being two sides of the same religion ( Catholic vs. Protestant ). Forgive me for not being pro-Christian. I've sat in churches and had similar communion with God experiences, but that was because I'd already had them in my room meditating and I knew what they were, how to get back into that space - I've even had them at lectures in college. But most people I know that go to church have not had this, they do not understand - and they people that do understand have not gone to church, or at least they have not found it there. But I also realised that it doesn't matter what religion you are: the experience of communing with God is the same in every religion, it's just each religion likes to dress it up differently. And I'll never tear down a church, I believe all churches and temples to be beautiful and a testament to the power of man, and the creativity. I even like Jesus and the stories from the Bible ( but sometimes to me they are just stories, the same as the stories about Krishna/Raddha or Shiva and Kali - sometimes I think it's just easier for me to understand the Hindu stories, than it is to see the spiritual side of the Christian ones. ). I just don't necessarily agree with religion they way it is run today because I do believe it is corrupt, and have seen how Christianity, at least in my country, segregated and corrupted. If Christianity is how you commune with God, good for you.

@moonpriestessa Although I agree with some of your post, I don't agree that psychedelics go hand in hand with spirituality. I've done psychedelics, and what happens is interesting. However, after a point you gain nothing substantial. You come down and return to reality. From there, you're on your own again.  What do you do then? You can trip drugs again, get "spiritual insight", and then back you are again. You'd think people who go back and forth so much would be super human, but they're not. They just trip drugs a lot and want free stuff (not all of them, but many).

That's still why I believe a shaman has a role and drugs aren't for everyone. I've also done a lot of psychedelics in my time. Sometimes they've been profound life-changing experiences, sometimes they've been novelty and fun for a few hours. I would say the profound insights and experiences I've had have stuck with me and led me to esoteric knowledge I would never have stumbled upon otherwise. I'd also like to point out that the times I had the most profound experiences through meditation that changed my life and perception were 9 months before I even tried psychedelics. Maybe that is why, when I did try them that I had such profound experiences because I already had a taste of that understanding sober - because I have many friends that do lots of drugs all the time and they are not spiritual at all - well some of them are and some are just looking to escape. So as much as the drug has the potential to open you up to a world of seeing things and understanding, I think you have to be open to that world already, because the drug is a tool, it only can do so much, you have to do the rest. I believe this is what shamans understand and why they can possess such knowledge and gain insight when working with teacher plants. I think it is all about intentions when you do these things ( and anything ) and most people nowadays have the intention of "wanting to get F-ed up" or "wanting to have a good time". Nothing wrong with the novelty side of those drugs either because thy can be fun, but I agree, that gets old, and adds little value.

On a personal level I was shown things like "The Ouroboros" ( something which I had no knowledge of prior ), and I had a trip that emulated The Tibetan Book Of 
The Dead ( But I wasn't aware of the Book's existence till I was researching my experiences on that trip and came across a book called "The Psychedelic Experience" that described my trip and The Tibetan Book of The Dead, a book I read and since found myself with a new understanding of how to approach death and the spirit and understand the different realms as feeling states etc. I found that book very beneficial to my practise and understanding. So to me they are beneficial, but I don't use them lightly or often. I understand they are not for everyone but I still believe they have their role in our society.

7 hours ago, Neptune said:

ALSO, Trump isn't promoting the drug trade in the middle east. The contrary happens to be the case, because as you said, those drugs fund the elite wannabes and thier agendas. Globalism. Yea. Trump doesn't want that. Lot's of problems there. That was Obama who helped the drug lords over there, not Trump. Yea. :)

I wouldn't say it's promoting the drug trade in the Middle East, I'd more likely say it's protecting the drug trade of your own country (that's just my opinion though...). I also don't agree Globalism. If my country had half a brain they would say how commerce is the new battlefield and all this multinational takeovers are the new empires of the world. There is no loyalty to a country anymore ( although I don't agree with that other, mainly because I have seen nothing in my country to be a patriot for but currently see the need to be united as a human nation with the world...that's another story for another day), however there is loyalty to brands and services. This is the new war.

You can try to judge a person's internal experience from your angle, but you'll fail every time. Trust me, I've tried.

Fair enough I'll keep that in mind, I'm not trying to judge though I am mostly trying to understand. I just can't understand how someone who claims to know god can also claim to be against an entire bunch of people based of their religion. I'm aware that their are pedophiles in the Catholic church, I'm also aware not all Catholics are like this. I'm aware that some Muslims are extremists, I'm also aware not all Muslims are like this. Dublin is a fairly mixed melting pot of cultures today. I've lived in neighbourhoods that are predominantly Muslim, never had an issue with them, they were never on the news for violent behaviour, they walked their kids to and from school just like you would. It's not the religion that makes people violent, it's the person themselves. Muslim countries are 2nd world countries with a whole host of problems that could contribute to uneducated, literal misintrepretations of the Quran. But put back Christianity in a 2nd world country and suddenly some will become a man's property too etc...

From what I know about Peganism, it was actually just a pejoritive term until the 20th century. It never had an official "truth" or organisation at all. One consistant aspect now in neopaganism is "honoring all living beings", but that can be interpreted all kinds of illegal ways, no? It can. If you don't believe people murder in the honor for the person being murdered, well that does happen. Some people are whacko. Just a fact of life. Worshipping nature is moreso Druidism. I find no violence there, which is great, but what else is there? Life is complex, far too complex, I'll say, than what nature worship can handle, especially in today's world. Wait... Islam? Really? You, the outspoken feminist, is defending Islam? Hahahah Ok. You can have your opinion, that's fine. I suspect it's not really your opinion, that Islam is beneficial for humanity, but you sure have the right to speak those words. Thankfully, Christians have the right to speak, too. Christians are winning in popularity over Isalm, even with Islam holding thier populations at gunpoint. Christians may come and go as they please. That says something great to me. 

Well druidism, and paganism and witchcraft all sort of cross-over in my experience, Paganism honours the Sun/Moon cycles, Druidism honours the planet and nature, Witchcraft adds intentions to all these elements and perhaps even science  ( without even realising it maybe ). 

I'm sure it does happen but that is not a problem with the religion inherently, that is a problem with the person. As someone said in this thread earlier, about religions being dangerous based on the people they reach - not all people are predisposed to have sound of mind. I've actually met a woman who was in a cult until she was 19 and finally broke free, sounded like real Eyes Wide Shut stuff. Scientology is one of the biggest cults too here, and around the world ( here they make you cut off contact with your family and you are expected to pay them all your money). I've even met this Hare Krishna monk who wrote this book about sustainable living and it's all very good to read but one of his followers I met is so strange and controlling and was a disaster waiting to happen ( he wanted to turn his rented house into a sublet to people that would only live according to the book and if the rules were broken, he upped the rent - things like no coffee/chocolate, no self-gratification items ( not personal spending), must be vegan, no drink, etc. All well and good lifestyles practises but not when enforced on people ). You've even got that Jesus Complex sanitarium housing all the people who believe they are Jesus. A guy in my country, Savario Bellante, had this and he committed the first act of cannabalism in this country. I don't think crazy is unique to one religion, I believe we all have the potential to do horrible things or to become susceptible to mental illness. 

 

And not a lot of Christians can come and go as they please in the eyes of "the Lord". Yes they can come and go as they please in say the US, or Ireland or the UK, or France, but we are, again 1st world countries. Muslims in these countries can also come and go as they please. So can Hindus, and Druids, and Aborigines. But in the eyes of the Lord, gay people couldn't come as they please. Not even sure if women could for a while ( scorned out thanks to Eve, if anything they were not as liked as men and not as equal ). I'm not condoning what is happening in those countries right now, obviously ISIS is a massive mess that is a bunch of extremists that shouldn't have the power they do, anyone that bombs in the name of Allah, is obviously mentally unwell ( or staged but again that's another story for another day). I'm just saying these things are not all Muslims.

 

5 hours ago, Neptune said:

You can't get much more sexist than Islam. Many women are slaves in Northern Africa, which is Muslim territory. Muslims opress women like no other religion I know of. To even suggest that Christianity is more sexist than Islam is to completely ignore objective reality.

I'd like also to add ... I wouldn't discount a religion simply because it had a female interpretation of God, because I'm not a sexist. :) Are you? 

In fairness the Bible can be treated as sexist ( women are seen as property), and their are instances of Christianity that are not great ( Mormons that have multiple wives, yet it is not okay to have multiple husbands ). In Muslim countries women are very oppressed - and those countries have a lot of issues. But in India (as much as I love Hinduism) women are subjected to regular domestic abuse and violence. In all parts of Africa women are regularly raped and never really educated. I honestly don't believe these things are related to the religions and it's more about the fact that these are 2nd and 3rd World countries and Christianity is based in mostly 1st World countries. These are bigger issues than about religion. It's about education ( which I realise religion plays the role of - but it is not the sole componant ).

I would discount a religion if it had a mono-sex god because that is not universal. If the pinnacle of all existence is a woman, what kind of message does that send to men is not deep down to shame them? It's not about sexism, it's about painting a picture of the absolute being something definable - something that only some of us can identify with, when in reality, god or whatever you want to call it, Spirit, Allah, Brahman what ever - it is the constant life energy that is aware and in all living things. It has no gender ( religion gave it a gender ). You and I at the core of our souls are alive, where share that same conscious self-awareness of being, so is every other living thing on this planet and every thing that exists. When you humanise that thing and even give it a gender it sets up the message that God is something that is only identifiable to a certain group of people therefore the other people must be against god. For example if God is a White male, God cannot be a White Female too or a Black Male or an Iraqi. However, when we say God is something universal - it is no form and yet every form, we can find "God" within each of us, it brings us together rather than separates us. It teaches us respect and breaks down our barriers whether that be between people of different races or plants and animals and trees. 

 

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