Esperanto

Evil exists

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Evil exists

There should be a separate section to discuss religion and theologies and mythologies. A great contribution by Teal is to call attention to the paradigm of karma... which I have always considered very unfair. I noticed a logical crack in all her explanations: I'll try to dissect it. She explains the universe as being the creation of a 'source'. This 'source', according to her, appears to be very detached to human affairs, amorphous, and it is not clear if this being has a sex or not. Also, not clear if it is a sentient being or not. It's just the 'source'.

... Always according to what Teal says: But this source is capable of creating angels... which are generally beings of goodness. Because she clearly said that angels emanate from the 'source'... So, angels do exist. But she said (in one of her videos) that demons don't exist per se, that they are just emanations from the negative thoughts of humans (?!)... Really?? I take strong objection to this statement. 

In practically all the ancient religions/mythologies it is stated that we were created by 'gods' coming from the interstellar space. That there were several 'gods', not just one. That many of them were male, while many were female, and some of them were even hermaphrodite, so, they had the two sexes in them. And that some of these 'gods' were downright evil... including one of the main creators. This particular one is the starring actor of the Old Testament. Yahwe... If you read the Old Testament carefully, you'll see a 'god' that is ill-tempered, vengeful, cruel, hyper-jealous and plain psychotic. A genocidal monster who even ordered his people to kill babies by smashing their heads on rocks. 

Hindus, Babylonians, Chaldeans, Phoenicians, Egyptians, Jewish, Christians, Mayans, Peruvians, Native North Americans... You name it. All ancient cultures share the same pantheons of the same 'gods', only with different names, and the storytelling changes a bit, though not much... even though all those cultures were distant in geography and time. How come?

The hieroglyphics in the temples and pyramids show depictions of these 'gods' coming to Earth from the stars, in their space ships. This is clearly visible in Mayan pyramids, but also in Egyptian and Peruvian pyramids, in ancient temples (even much older) of what today is Iraq, and many other places.

Look at the history of the world. There has been evil in this world since there was mankind. So, you can argue that there's evil because there is mankind, yes. So, then have a look at mother nature. How do you explain all the ugly things in this world that cause a lot of suffering, and that can't be blamed on humans? Genetic failures? Modern scientists say that 'God' could have done way better when designing the human body, as, for example, the human brain is easily vulnerable to physical damage, just because its protective case, the skull, was defectively designed. All the illnesses that plague humankind, and that can't be blamed on us? 

And there are many creatures on this planet that are good for nothing, except carrying disease. Take cockroaches as an example. The scientists concluded long ago that cockroaches are good for nothing. That this world would be better without them. Curiously, it'd be impossible to get rid of them.  They're very resilient, and science states that in the case of a nuclear disaster, the cockroaches would very probably be among the few survivors. That's how strong they are. Not to mention how ugly they are. What kind of a 'source' or God creator would think of creating something as ugly and useless as the cockroaches??? Only an evil/insane 'god' would... The Nordic mythologies have such a crazy/evil 'god' in their pantheon, Loki, and this is the same evil/crazy 'god' mentioned in ALL the ancient mythologies, only under different names. But the Nordics managed a particularly clear description of him.

... So, some cynics claimed, Ah! The humble cockroach holds the secret of human survival, that's why they're here! To teach us how to survive! Maybe... but if so, then the Demiurge has a very strange (psychotic?) sense of humour... 

My point is that the existence of evil can't be explained so easily, just as the manifestation of human's proclivity to being bad... And also, if we were created with twin capabilities, for both good and evil, why has this world always been dominated by evil deeds? Look around... This world is generally not a nice place to be in. It's getting worse and worse, granted, but it was always like this: a reign of evil, not of love.

I believe that the world can be saved... by humans. But Teal shouldn't dismiss evil as just a creation of the human mind. Just by looking around, it is easy to see that evil is a lot more than just human negative feelings.

It is a mistake to not take the existence of evil (and of evil entities) seriously, as a very real threat to human survival. 

 

 

 

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I was talking about the real existence of evil and evil beings. You completely stepped out of topic. I mentioned angels just as a contrast (light/darkness). And religion as just a frame of reference.  And I'm not interested in being an angel. 

My words were very clear and to the point, why you seem to not have understood anything? Peculiar... Maybe you were talking to another person and you accidentally posted in the wrong thread? :D

"Source' is detached from humans because it's not here, and has not been for a long, long time, if ever was... Period. It's like the second coming of Christ that never happened.

My point was that Teal states that evil entities only exist in the human mind. And that's an oversimplification. Curiously, you didn't mention evil or evil beings at all, which is the topic of this thread. Is this a case of if we pretend it's not there, maybe we don't have to acknowledge it? (But they're still there)... 

Not to insist, but you totally digressed from what I was saying. In fact, all that you said could have belonged to any/another thread (about angels, no less!). Because your words have nothing to do with what I said. Next time, try to stay on topic, thanks :) ~ Never mind...

Thanks, you too.

Edited by Esperanto

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"Power up your energy body enough, clear your frequency (blood, detox, carry charge) and bubble up that frequency and you'll be an 'angel'. 

Oh wow... And where did I say that I wanted to be an angel??? 

"The wings you see are the natural energetic extensions on the back of a humanoid."

For the Holy Flying Spaghetti Monster!!! Dude... Were you under the influence a little while ago? It certainly seems so :D

Edited by Esperanto
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Apparently it was British statistician, George E.P. Box who said "Essentially, all models are flawed but some are useful".

As far as I can tell, "angels", "demons", "Source" are all part of a model.  If a model contains "angels" then it should probably contain "demons".   But what does the model mean by these things?  Well, someone has to explain and then maybe we can make a determination of whether the model is useful.

 

Edited by Scot

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Topics can certainly be made sterile... Like this, like a pseudo-academic discussion that turns angels and demons, and good and evil, into a subject to showcase "theories"... or "models". Let's make it a new programming language! With equations and equivalencies to geometric 4th dimensional models! Yeah why not? :D

As far as you can tell... Well, seemingly you can't tell very much, nor very far. Good and evil are not abstractions to theorize about. They're reality to confront everyday. If you can't understand, ask Teal, who had to endure very real evil when she was little (does she still have to?)... And you talk about abstract 'models'. 

"... whether the model is useful" - For what purpose, exactly? So that you can theorize about it? Like in a cafeteria chat among bored students?

So, that's how you face evil in everyday life? You start talking about 'models'? Good luck with that :)

This thread is about the vast amounts of evil on earth, which are very real, and you come up with 'models'... Sorry, laughable :D 

 

Edited by Esperanto
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You seem to want to have a fight or a flame war. Sorry.  Not interested in having one.  But with regard to flame wars and evil, I find flame wars to be examples of evil spirits within the human heart.  If the "spirit" operating with a person in a flame war is an example of a "demon" then it is at most an archetype, not an external existent entity.

Your original post seemed to want to discuss whether "demons" exist and then you went on to provide a list of examples of how "evil" exists.  But does the existence of evil prove the existence of demons?

God / Source works in mysterious ways although they are natural ways.  Perhaps all of Her work (both good and evil) happen through random numbers?

Edited by Scot
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6 hours ago, Scot said:

 

You seem to want to have a fight or a flame war. Sorry.  Not interested in having one.  

 

Agree. I was going to post here but then saw all those sarcastic replies. Meh....?

Good luck

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1 hour ago, walt said:

Another wounded person looking for answers.

When one is looking for answers, it might be best to ask questions.

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40 minutes ago, walt said:

Do you have question, grasshopper?

Nope.   I'll admit I don't have all the answers.  But in this thread I am not trying to ask a question.

But I think this thread is getting hi-jacked.  So let's pull it back to Esperanto's topic: Do demons exist?   

 

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Reading this I've realised that I really don't know what evil actually is.  So what is it?  I'm already aware of abstract definitions like isolation from God/source etc but I've not found these helpful.  If I am going about my lawful business and evil comes my way, how would I recognise it?  Obviously if I ever meet someone with hooves and horns,for instance, then this would be easy, but what about more subtle aspects of evil?

BTW my favourite demon in the whole wide world is Choronzon, the dweller in the abyss.  Does anyone else have a favourite?

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Neptune, in your post above all you examples of evil (and they are good examples btw) are examples of evil things people do.   Therefore these examples of evil are "emanations of negative thoughts of people" or "emanations coming from LACK of thought or MISTAKEN thoughts of people".  Example: Teal was subject to ritual abuse.  (About as evil as it gets). But as Teal explains it, they honestly thought they were doing a good thing for Teal by trying to force these "unnatural powers" out of a girl because only men should have such powers.  Of course, we believe their actions were completely evil but it was not "just for kicks".  Their actions were caused by LACK of thought or MISTAKEN thought.  Evil? Yes.   Who knows what evil lays in the hearts of men?   Only the Shadow knows.

But can evil come not from people but from Source itself?  Nature is filled with lots of fun examples of evil.   I was just reading that egrets typically lay three eggs.  The stronger two chicks kill the weaker chick and the parents stand by and let it happen.  Apparently the first two eggs have more androgen and grow stronger and more aggressive.  The third egg has less androgen and apparently is part of "God's plan" to be sacrificed to the older two.  On the other hand, apparently in canaries the youngest egg gets more androgen which sort of levels the playing field.

my take?  Source is random.  Evolution is random.  We are pattern seekers and when good things happen we call it "law of attraction". On the other hand, when bad things happen we call it "law of attraction".   But the fact seems to be that the universe is expanding and along the way a lot of random numbers are being generated.

Edited by Scot

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There are definitely "things" going in the direction you don't want (unless  you are those things :)).

There are also "things" that themselves are vibrationally lower in frequency at their divine-signature level. Devolution-inspiring vs evolution-inspiring.

However, in order for a vortex to spin there must be forces operating in both directions. It's interesting such a simple concept escapes so many.

Light requires darkness..LITERALLY.. MATHEMATICALLY.. PHYSICALLY.  "It takes two to big-bang-o."

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On 2017-6-2 at 11:04 AM, walt said:

Another wounded person looking for answers.

Not at all... I'm not wounded, you just assumed that I am. Just another example of jumping to conclusions (on your part)... I don't think you are capable of an objective discussion, because you jump to conclusions. 

I'm not looking for answers, either... I am concerned about the abundant existence of evil in this world, and how people ignore it. People prefer to talk about angels only. As I said before, a case of 'let's pretend it's not there, so maybe we won't have to confront it' :)

I'm not looking for answers... I'm criticizing Teal because she said that evil beings only exist in the human mind... And because she avoids speaking of evil, or does but minimally. And evil is very real, so, why does she avoid it? To be just positive? But life is also negative (particularly these days), and light can't exist without darkness.

You made two very wrong assumptions: I am not wounded, and I'm not looking for answers. As a detective, you'd probably be fired very soon. This is sarcasm... In fact, you said these (false) words about me because you took it personally. Does evil scare you?

Edited by Esperanto

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On 2017-6-2 at 1:57 PM, Mark Joseph Middleton said:

I know you are not interested in being an angel. You are interested in saying source is over here, angels are over here and evils over here. That is why I worded it as I did, to poke the ego. Apologies but it was necessary to integrate some of what you were saying when talking about conceptualizations.

Source is around you, inside of you, is you, and no more distant than you want to make out it is. The same with angels and the same with evil. Are there some evil beings sure, are there some angelic beings sure. The 'wings' referred to in traditional metaphor of angels are that of a fully activated energy body seen through the third eye.


 

Now you make more sense... If you wanted to poke my ego, it didn't work. And it's good that you admitted that evil beings exist... I hope you won't add that 'only in the human mind', as Teal did. This thread is about discussing the existence of evil beings... It bothered me that Teal denies their existence... Negating their existence makes them even more dangerous. 

Edited by Esperanto
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On 2017-6-2 at 4:09 AM, Scot said:

You seem to want to have a fight or a flame war. Sorry.  Not interested in having one.  But with regard to flame wars and evil, I find flame wars to be examples of evil spirits within the human heart.  If the "spirit" operating with a person in a flame war is an example of a "demon" then it is at most an archetype, not an external existent entity.

Your original post seemed to want to discuss whether "demons" exist and then you went on to provide a list of examples of how "evil" exists.  But does the existence of evil prove the existence of demons?

God / Source works in mysterious ways although they are natural ways.  Perhaps all of Her work (both good and evil) happen through random numbers?

I will not be nice to comments that don't make sense. That doesn't mean I want war. I want objectivity and realistic points of view. That's all. 

I'm not talking about the human heart, where evil also exists, of course... But I'm talking about evil entities that are not part of human kind... Didn't I make that very clear? But you keep saying that evil is in the human heart, thus that it is 'not an external existent entity'... You're throwing your personal beliefs in this thread. I came up with facts that are provable (because hard evidence exists), and you... you come up with your own beliefs. :)

"God / Source works in mysterious ways although they are natural ways.  Perhaps all of Her work (both good and evil) happen through random numbers?"

You definitely believe that all comes from "God/Source"... So, in fact, you're defending Teal's point of view... which is exactly what I criticized about her... because she can't offer any facts.... just like you... You two just offer personal beliefs, about evil (I hope they are just beliefs, and not something much worse). 

This thread is a criticism of such a position, as it is NOT OBJECTIVE. 

Edited by Esperanto

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