Starlight

Everyone is Right? (& Creators of meaning)

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I just want to share something that's been bothering me for a long time.

so this idea that 'everyone is right from their perspective' I can accept to a fair degree. It's certainly useful to understand the thought-system within which a person is acting and to understand their emotional landscape. 

But I feel that the important next step, is often never arrived at..

Is this person's behaviour abusive, dangerous or damaging to others? They may be acting 'in a right fashion according to their perspective' .....but there are generally accepted codes of behaviour beyond the subjective perspective. I feel it is important to bring this into the equation. Otherwise you get the school yard situation of the abuser and abused, being told to apologise to each other - so the abused kid has to apologise to the kid that's bullying him.

Similarly this idea of 'creating meaning' I feel is taken so far it becomes absurd.

'I imposed a meaning due to my perspective' as if there was no system of values outside of individual perspective.

Isn't it odd how we all 'impose very similar meaning' on key life experiences such as the loss of a loved one, losing all our money, being caught in a war, winning a coveted prize. 

Edited by Starlight
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How I understand it is... nothing is right or wrong, there is no good or bad, however every action has a consequence.

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Hi Walt. That's not the point I'm making. 

 

Hi Nuia, this is also an idea that I've heard a lot and I also question that. Action has a consequence yes, but no good or bad? I certainly heard this idea from teachers I've had, but they were just passing on words they had heard themselves..

Edited by Starlight

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On 10/3/2016 at 9:23 PM, Starlight said:

I just want to share something that's been bothering me for a long time.

so this idea that 'everyone is right from their perspective' I can accept to a fair degree. It's certainly useful to understand the thought-system within which a person is acting and to understand their emotional landscape. 

But I feel that the important next step, is often never arrived at..

Is this person's behaviour abusive, dangerous or damaging to others? They may be acting 'in a right fashion according to their perspective' .....but there are generally accepted codes of behaviour beyond the subjective perspective. I feel it is important to bring this into the equation. Otherwise you get the school yard situation of the abuser and abused, being told to apologise to each other - so the abused kid has to apologise to the kid that's bullying him.

Similarly this idea of 'creating meaning' I feel is taken so far it becomes absurd.

'I imposed a meaning due to my perspective' as if there was no system of values outside of individual perspective.

Isn't it odd how we all 'impose very similar meaning' on key life experiences such as the loss of a loved one, losing all our money, being caught in a war, winning a coveted prize. 

Thanks for bringing this up. I agree that something is missing in the view usually presented here (attempt to remove self-blame  from confused souls). I recommend to have a look on www.montalk.net. Thomas Minderle gives a good (works for me) definition of right, wrong, good and bad. I will revisit his site as well to get this straight ...

Please note that Teal treats everyone according to his current vibration, e.g. recommends bad music to make one angry when in a state of powerlessness since the vibration of powerlessness is even below anger.  So it's pretty hard (almost impossible) to extract a general rule of thumb (works always and for all) path from what she does when working with a client. Thomas Minderle has a more masculine and general approach.  I keep an eye on both! :-)

 

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On 10/3/2016 at 3:23 PM, Starlight said:

I just want to share something that's been bothering me for a long time.

so this idea that 'everyone is right from their perspective' I can accept to a fair degree. It's certainly useful to understand the thought-system within which a person is acting and to understand their emotional landscape. 

But I feel that the important next step, is often never arrived at..

 

The idea that everyone's right is for me merely a means to understanding action and motivation from another;s perspective not an acceptance of that perspective as healthy or socially acceptable. To help someone heal we want to be able to through their eyes and help them see the alternatives available to them and choose to change. That doesn't imply an acceptance of consequences but does imply a non-judgemental attitude toward the individual if not the behavior. Hurt people hurt people and when we understand their perspective we can help them heal and change.

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On 03/10/2016 at 8:23 PM, Starlight said:

Isn't it odd how we all 'impose very similar meaning' on key life experiences such as the loss of a loved one, losing all our money, being caught in a war, winning a coveted prize. 

It's similar because we have all been similarly socialized into a culture that already strongly holds these convictions. Such as loss of money = rock-bottom.  Such as winning a prize = pride. Such as "death = bad". Well, would it surprise you that I personally do not feel death to be a bad thing, and never have? Deaths of family and/or friends when I was younger did not phase me at all. And I mean at all. They were just an opportunity for some break in routine and free food for me.

As mentioned above the key here is there is no "rule of thumb". Sometimes the truth that "everyone is right from their perspective" is a highly self-serving tool. And sometimes it's just an excuse to bypass something. It's up to the individual to work out what is optimal in what circumstance. I believe that people should focus heavily on improving their analytical intelligence as well as their intuition, in order to get a better feel for what needs to be applied in what situation. Because, like Teal herself says, truths can and will contradict eachother on different levels of reality. And since our level of reality is always in a state of shift, so too are truths.

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On ‎2016‎-‎10‎-‎03 at 9:23 PM, Starlight said:

.....but there are generally accepted codes of behaviour beyond the subjective perspective

I do genuinly believe that everyone is and has every right to act, think, feel and behave in anyway they do because no matter from how you see it they always have core reasons to do so.
Even abusers have all right to abuse...i come from such an upbringing of constant mental and emotional abuse so i adopted those things for myself. Had i no right to be in such a way?
In order for a child to feel a sense of belonging there has got to be shared participation in the family dynamic even if that dynamic is abusive. The family have been treated almost exactly the same in their own upbringing, that is why they passed that hard abusiveness on to me. I have all right to behave in damaging ways because those were the most prominent things for me growing up.
Did not know any other way of life in short, so it is hard to expect those kinds of beings to "just get it" when they literally cant at times.

Secondly this quote feels weird to me. What are those general accepted codes of behavior beyond the subjective perspective?

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Thanks for your replies everyone. My main goal bringing this up, is to promote a questioning approach. 

I've come across several meditation/spirituality teachers.. who trot out these concepts in a dogmatic way, which is ironic. 

Pastor George yes totally, that's the useful aspect of this idea and I'd go as far as to say it's absolutely necessary in order to be fair to people. And then yes, the behaviour and not the person. I just feel people forget to call out the 'behaviour' as they are so keen to be non-judgemental of the person.  That's been me most of my life to be honest! Let he who is without sin cast the first stone - becomes I. can't criticise anyone about anything, because I once stole a chocolate bar.  Yet the loving thing to do is call out poor behaviour.

Thanks Andreas! I'll definitely look at that soon when I have more time, a bit short on time right now. The very reason I follow Teal, in fact the very thing that attracted me to her work, was that I had about 50 other concepts that used to bug me and I felt no-one was really clarifying them at all. Practically every single one, Teal would bring up, look at from different angles and turn them from sometimes vague abstractions to incredibly useful, grounded information. 

Neptune thanks for that reflection. Yes. Exactly. 

Edited by Starlight

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I would like to cite Thomas Minderle here (see http://montalk.net/about/91/key-concepts) who IMHO has defined a few key concepts (positive, negative, good, evil, truth,...) very precisely:

Morality

• All that encourages spiritual evolution is called positive, all that hinders it is called negative.
• What is painful, scary, and illegal is typically called “evil,” while what is nice, loving, and accepted is commonly called “good.”
• Good and evil as such are subjective and relative terms, while positive and negative are objective and absolute.
• Proper balance between good and evil, each in their proper place, results in positivity.
• Too much good leads to stagnation and jadedness, which is negative; too much evil leads to total destruction, which is also negative.
• Balance is maintained by having both in proper ratio and diametric opposition.
• Morality has to do with being good; conscience with being positive.
• Morality is programmed into us by our social and biological programming; conscience originates with our innate spiritual intelligence.
• One who fights solely for good or evil is a fool, one who fights strictly for positivity is a noble warrior.
Such a warrior will incorporate the proper balance of good/evil within himself, then seek to restore balance to negative systems.

    •    Truth isn’t relative or subjective, there is a definite framework truth that can be discovered through experience, observation, experimentation, reason, and intuitive revelation.
    •    Ethics isn’t relative or subjective, there is a divine framework of right and wrong of which our human ethics and morals are but a crude approximation.

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15 hours ago, Neptune said:

Is my view more valid than the sex offender's? Yes it is. Why? The sex offender is only "right" by thier own perverted logic. They are also ignorant to the greater good of humanity and the human being they are abusing. The perspective of a sex offender is littered with resistance, confusion, and a deep denial of thier true self. So, yeah, my perspective is far more valid than someone trapped in thier own illusions. 

You have all right to say everything you say. Know that i feel mildly offended by this. You say they have resistant ways but isnt this view of looking at them resistant as well?

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Thanks Andreas..

 'there is a divine framework of right and wrong of which our human ethics and morals are but a crude approximation.' This is the system of values I was alluding to  in my original post.

So subjective perspective, is not everything. Though it's indeed very helpful to understand the beliefs a person is basing their responses on.

I also like this..thanks for all the quotes you shared. Useful.

13 hours ago, Andreas H. said:

 

    •    Truth isn’t relative or subjective, there is a definite framework truth that can be discovered through experience, observation, experimentation, reason, and intuitive revelation.
    

 

Edited by Starlight

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