Tessa Rae

Self Love vs Narcissism?

15 posts in this topic

Self Love vs Narcissism?

Hey all :)

I am a person who fully respects Teal's teachings on the importance of self love / esteem in becoming whole again.

After being in this community for a while, though, I have noticed the shadow aspect of self love turning toxic sometimes, which leads me to the following questions...

My question for you guys, is what is the difference between self love and narcissism? When does self love start to become narcissism? Is there a difference at all between extreme self absorption and narcissism? How does self esteem / self love look different? Can we make a list of self love traits vs narcissistic traits?

Edited by Tessa Rae
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6 hours ago, Tessa Rae said:

My question for you guys, is what is the difference between self love and narcissism? When does self love start to become narcissism? Is there a difference at all between extreme self absorption and narcissism? How does self esteem / self love look different?

Here is my take for your consideration:

When it comes to questions like this, I fall back on my emotions as my compass.  I love Teal's explanation that our emotions reflect how our Soul experiences our reality. Emotions are the language of our Soul.  When we are aligned with our Soul, our heart expands and we feel good emotions.  When we are not aligned with our Soul, our heart contracts and we feel painful emotions. 

I also trust that the natural state of our Soul is love and grace.  So, I am focusing on allowing my emotions to guide me in all my decisions.  As I do this, I see that I am naturally prioritizing my boundaries (my likes and dislikes) while at the same time respecting other people's boundaries.

For me,  the line between self-love and narcissism is here:  self-love comes from alignment with our Soul and naturally respects other people's boundaries. Narcissism arises from unintegrated shadow aspects, does not align with our Soul, and wants to cross other people's boundaries, falsely believing that it will feel better doing so.

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Thanks for answering @Amazawa . I appreciate how your advice has practical application that is easy to try out on a daily basis. :)

Anyone else want to add what they think the difference is? Because the other two somewhat touched on it but both seemed to stray from the topic a little. And actually Walt didn't really answer the question at all... (no offense if you end up reading this Walt).

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self love would be more connected to your higher self and be source flowing in this body, you're not this body you're just in it experiencing it. A narcissist would be like a alter ego that became a huge ego, like the star (famous person) not the person inside that's alone and all that goes away.  A façade building yourself up to be great would be a narcissist, like they're acting in a way.

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47 minutes ago, Trinity Anderson said:

     @Alex7 I strongly agree with this, and therefore am curious about your perspective on my own theories. I think narcissism and being self-loving are both moment-to-moment conditions. I don't think they're proper opposites semantically, that would be self-hate and self-love. In the former, it is believed that the universe is finite and in the latter it is believed that the universe is infinite. Since it's possible to switch between these two perspectives from nanosecond to nanosecond, I think it's nearly impossible to know for sure whether you are witnessing a majority fear-based action or a majority love-based action. That's why judgement gets you in so much trouble in a multidimensional universe.

     If someone asked you to begin to form a functional definition for the word narcissism as it applies to the Teal Tribe forums, where would you start? As of now, I think it's impossible to make a "narcissistic post" unless you are a troll, an anti-Tealer, or some other type of nefarious infiltrator, but I'm curious and don't want to lead you too much in your answer either. 

I always feel like words aren't accurate, so no matter what I say it will be taken another way, it isn't a bad thing, but that's how limiting language is. we are here to be a ego, so the word narcissism gets confusing. a unhealthy ego would probably be Donald trump, someone like that. there's probably more to it, but we don't see the childhood they had or trauma that causes it, we just see the narcissist, but its more of a defense mechanism, like a pathological liar.

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Ok. I appreciate that you are trying to help but you guys  ( @Trinity Anderson @walt ) are just kind of saying my question is not valid which doesn't actually do anyone good, not me, and not any other person who feels the same as I do. Maybe it builds your ego up and makes you feel like you're superior to me by judging that my questino is flawed in and of itself. But maybe, just maybe, there is something big underneath.

I'm just going to be honest and say I think it is completely possible to tip the balance from self-love so it becomes toxic. I also would argue that when this does become toxic it is no longer real self love, but narcissism.  What I mean is, you can become wrapped up in yourself that you fail to hear other people's voices. You create your own personal safe space, and you never have to interact with anyone outside of this safe space, and from this space you are free to speak all you want but the words coming back at you simply won't ever reach you because you are too afraid they will be anything besides what you've thought yourself. And even that, youa re afraid of.

Honestly, this isn't about me but you both are trying to make this about me. Most people who have survived narcissistic abuse will have a hard time doing anything self loving because they're afraid of becoming overly self-centered and lose touch with what really matters.

And that is exactly why I want to talk about this. I can't be the only one feeling this way. There are other people who understand this, too. 

Do you understand what I'm asking now? Because if you're dead set on telling me that my question is flawed, I would prefer you guys keep the discussion in private messages to each other if at all, simply out of respect. After all, I am asking because I would like answers, from all sorts of different people from several different walks of life.

Also, @Trinity Anderson I admit that it was messed up of me to edit the topic. But here's the thing. This is not about anyone here. I realized after I made it that it would be interpreted that way and tried to take it down because it distracts from the real question. The reason why this is on my heart?

I am concerned because a lot of my favorite members have LEFT the forum, completely, GONE. Like, deleted their accounts, disappeared. And I noticed some bullying going on by other members which I assume played a part in their decision. You might say it's controlling of me to want them to stay, but that's not where I'm coming from. It freaks me out that some people this horrible can be on the forum and could be bullying people off of here.

I should have brought this up ages ago, but I have been busy. Even though the incense isn't burning, the smoke left a smell in the air and I had to put words to it.

So NO, I'm not going to act like I'm ok with how every single member on this forum treats other people. Because there's a lot of room to improve. This isn't about either you, or walt, specifically. I don't want or need to go there. But I do want to question how useful it is to practice self love, and what the tipping point is before it becomes imbalanced and becomes toxic.

 Is it so wrong to question teachings of self love, when I have witnessed it get blown WAAAAY out of proportion on here, on multiple different occasions? Are you guys going to pretend like these things don't happen? Because I am kind of weirded out and upset that stuff like this ever happened in the first place. And honestly, pretty pissed off if other people on here aren't willing to talk about it.

I know all of us on this forum are kind of on the edge of society as far as our beliefs go, and so we come from all different walks of life. But I feel in my heart that no matter how different we are with eachother we can respect eachother, and coexist without harassing or invalidating each other.

 

Clearly this is a really charged topic. I don't mean any disrespect to either of you. I just feel kind of surprised that I am being accused of beng anti-teal just for wondering what the difference is between the two and mentioning how I've seen the self-love thing get blown out of proportion with some of the people on this forum.. I figure, it can't be just coincidence. And I would like to make clear definitions. And you know what, I'm realizing that this is too big of a question. Most of these huge truths can't be fit into a nice lovely word or definition.

You guys can think I'm a bitch but honestly if you judge me on this one thread you're not getting a complete picture. I actually really respect Teal. And I question things, not to go against her, but in her spirit. Questioning is, I feel, the very essence of her teachings. How the hell else do we find answers if not by questioning?

 I'm clearly triggered by this whole thing. Sorry for the long post.

Edited by Tessa Rae
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@PROFIT Yes! I have seen this guy before. I actually just recently found him and I think his videos are really informative. He made one about how to spot a narcissist that kind of answered my question. It does worry me though because I did go through a lot of pain growing up... I digress though.

@Neptune No need to read between the lines here. I am curious, but I am also frustrated (long post). Thanks for answering despite not knowing for sure.

@Cloudy ...Thank you. This does make sense to me. Sorry you're struggling with this too. I am going to let your words soak in... <3

idk why but it didn't put the links in any of you guys' so sorry x(

 

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If someone understands and keeps in mind the ultimate truth of the universe, that we are all one, than no amount of self love will turn that person into a narcissist because ultimately, we are all equal.  We are just in different places in our development.  I have a tremendous amount of self love and doing things daily to better myself and improve that self love, while at the same time realizing that no matter how advanced I become, that doesn't make be "better than" anyone else, how can I be better than someone if they are me?  I am not going to say anything specific about members of this forum because I don't keep up with it enough to know, but what it sound to me like the op is referring to is, some people may reach a point in spiritual development where they feel like they have arrived at the top or end or like a God status, ultimate spiritual development, I have arrived!   What's important to remember while on a spiritual journey is that there is always more developing to be done, there is always more we can learn, we are never at the end (at least not in this universe).  We can always still improve no matter how advanced we are now.  

It is important to have self love in order to love others and interact in a loving way towards others.  Without self love I cannot successfully love another.  I'll give some examples, I am a mom and without self love, or let's say, if I am self-loathing, that attitude would negatively affect my interactions with my children.  My children would pick up on the self loathing and in turn, view themselves with self loathing (children do what they are shown not told).  So it is in the best interest of my children for me to have self love and provide them with that example, in turn giving them self love.  Another example, if I have a friend who is going through a hard time, instead of being selfish and thinking about all the ways that friend is letting me down (because of their problems), the loving this to do is for me to show that person love, compassion and encouragement.  If I wasn't self loving enough to see past their disappointing actions, than I wouldn't be able to put the disappointment aside and give that person love.   What you do to others, you do to yourself.  What you do to yourself, you do to others. 

Also, narcissist is caused by trauma, and although a narcissist may act like they think they are above others, deep down inside, they lack self love, they have self esteem issues.  They may portray it as high opinion of themselves, but what is really going on is the opposite.   This is a very unhealthy attitude and way to go through life.

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Forgive me if I repeat anything @Tessa Rae

I've faced this within myself. 

I know that when I'm not actively self-loving, as well as outwardly speaking of myself in high regard, when I'm trying to NOT do that... I actually get a bit down. So, I tested myself to see if I actually was/am a Narcissist... I was so consumed by this worry that my best friend actually called me a narcissist. That rejection... It hurt. But, I manifested it because I feared it to be true. So, of course, I made it true, "People will think I'm a narcissist."

However, face to face, with all the people I'd spend time with regularly... They didn't think I was a narcissist. 

A narcissist also has to tear you down. A narcissist doesn't want to hear anything you have to say. When I build myself up really high. I get basically hyper, and love talking and get excited and was sort of talking over people. I didn't like that, because the reason I wanted to build myself up was to let others shine. And, the reason it was hard, was because I have a hard time changing. Like, logically change makes sense, but my emotional body resists change. Like with seasons, I actually grieve them changing. Lol. 

A narcissist can't have you as an equal. But, I wish for people to be equal. Equally open. Equally confident. Someone's smallness doesn't serve me. It makes me feel bad. 

I also don't like conflict. So, if someone can approach differences in a non-adversarial way, I appreciate it. I don't like adversarial experiences. 

Sorry if this isn't the form in which you would like to consume the information (i.e. listing) but, I am sleepy :) debating sleep or go to the store and pick up my books or edit this video. Lol. Enjoy your Friday! We experienced the EXACT full moon a few hours ago, so manifest abundance, the luminaries are in your favour. 

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@PROFIT

Thank you for taking the time to reply, this made a lot of sense to me. I actually wasn't really triggered by your post so much as I was by the people who just said the two have nothing in common and invalidated my question... then started going off on their own rants to each other. It felt really cold and it seems odd to me that people would comment on someone's question without feeling into their question and seeing how it is a valid question to them, and then answering it. 

I guess on some level this is personal. I've been through abuse from a narcissist (my dad) and it's been overwhelmingly hard to move on with my life. My self concept is at worse nonexistent and at best fractured. I think Teal's 365 days of self love has helped but then I've been beating myself up lately for just being so caught up in my past, and thinking about it. I know it wouldn't have so much of a hold on me if I could let it go, but it just keeps coming up. I get pretty absorbed in my problems sometimes, to the extent that it can sometimes cut off my ability to perceive much going on outside of me.

Even though this is personal, I feel like every topic on this forum is at least a little personal. I don't want to make an enemy of self love practices but I guess a combination of all those members turning sour and my past coming up and me noticing that I'm pretty selfish caused me to ask the question.

Ironically, I asked the universe this question outside of this forum and shortly thereafter met a guy who was definitely narcissistic, who stalked me on facebook and used what info he could find about myself to create a false self that he thought I would like. Then, he kept drawing attention to himself or thinking i was talking to him when I wasn't.  Which, was kind of freaky to witness, but also shed some light on my concerns. Thanks, universe! lol

I don't really think of myself as a judgemental person and I guess that's one reason why this is hard for me to hear. Too often I see people saying things like "don't judge" and the likes. But I think that is ignorant in a lot of ways. Honestly for me personally it is dangerous to tell myself to 'not judge' as that is my natural tendency. I have gotten in trouble quite often because of my being accepting of lots of different people, some of them who have been sketchy and who I maybe should have judged. Judgements protect. I observe and make judgments also because I'm sick and tired of people who I thought were my friends turning their backs on me. I don't want that to happen any more. I don't want to be labelled a narcissist even if I'm not, because I just hate feeling like what I'm doing to heal is actually making things worse for everyone except me.

So, ok. But for the people who said don't judge: Do you have any practical applications on how to do that? And either way, when I weigh the benefit/cost of judging, I still think as far as risk goes judging gives me benefits that far outweigh the cost.

1 hour ago, PROFIT said:

We ALL have a bit of narcissism but lets get real for a sec, are you telling me you don't crave success? Money? People loving you? If life was just about enlightenment, all we have to do is kill ourselves, THERE YOU HAVE IT! ONE WITH EVERYTHING!

Thanks for that haha :) It's ok to want success, and money, and people loving you? I mean I guess duhh but I think on some level I've made it not ok to want those things. My narcissistic dad would literally punish me every time I would get something that I wanted to get for myself.

I don't even want a ton of money, just enough to get by, do what I love, and eat well. I also would like success doing the sort of things that Teal's doing. Sometimes I think I would make a good medical intuitive because I have helped myself with so many health problems in the past.

Well, and I have been thinking too... because the vibration of the collective here on earth right now is very low and suffering, it makes sense that when a person starts doing simple things like giving a shit about their wants and needs, most people will think of them as being narcissistic. I guess that's why then, it is so crucial to help 'raise the vibration' of the collective.

 

 

P.S. - I don't like tolerating dickheads honestly, when I run into them in real life, I choose flight over fight. I feel like my time's being wasted when people are being rude, mean, or otherwise sketchy when I feel it is uncalled for. I just quit my job yesterday because the manager was being an asshole and yelling at me. Maybe that makes me a fucking pussy, whatever though. If a person can't get past his anger and be real as to why they're feeling upset, I'm out. And that's good about the bullies... it's just kind of sad in general that such a thing ever happened in the first place.

 

Edited by Tessa Rae
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I've met many narcissists in my life. In fact, is one of the main shadow in my entire female family line...Having studied it for a long time, I honestly think genuine self appreciation is the exact opposite of what we call narcissistic disorder.

Let's take a look at what I think self love is...The image and the correspondent emotional reaction that we have of our own self comes from our childhood. If our parents didn't mirror us emotionally and psychologically, we end up highly traumatised , and as a coping mechanism we'll absorb the traits of either our narc parent or the codependent one.

Now, if that's the case, we live in a state of high distress, confusion and pain. Overtly or covertly.

On the other hand, if the parents were more balanced and aware , the natural human mirroring takes place and the child will experience all the fundamental milestones for a healthy psyche, no atachment trauma, no feelings of isolation or shame.

That child will mantain its wholeness, developing its own unique traits and having a true appreciation for them. Healthy boundaries and all that good stuff.

This kind of state could never be toxic. It's a balanced state , resistance free ,it's a natural way of being..I think that's a though concept for us humans to grasp, in fact we've not expeirence it yet as a species. A peculiar comparison: cats are beings who are self loving. And still they're not toxic or unbalanced (excpet if they live with people for too long :D) This is what I think x

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On Wednesday, September 14, 2016 at 0:20 AM, Tessa Rae said:

Self Love vs Narcissism?

Hey all :)

I am a person who fully respects Teal's teachings on the importance of self love / esteem in becoming whole again.

After being in this community for a while, though, I have noticed the shadow aspect of self love turning toxic sometimes, which leads me to the following questions...

My question for you guys, is what is the difference between self love and narcissism? When does self love start to become narcissism? Is there a difference at all between extreme self absorption and narcissism? How does self esteem / self love look different? Can we make a list of self love traits vs narcissistic traits?

Self love is pretty much the opposite of narcissism. The narcissist does not love themselves, and so they go about trying to prove they are worthy of being loved...it only appears as though they are self loving. Much the same way that a, so called, "egotistical" person is not actually feeling like they are meeting their need for significance -ego/third chakra/significance, whatever...the point is, they do not think highly of themselves, but the opposite. Someone who knows they are significant does not need to go about trying to prove it. Likewise, you needn't worry about becoming narcissistic through loving yourself.

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3 hours ago, WireX said:

Self love is pretty much the opposite of narcissism. The narcissist does not love themselves, and so they go about trying to prove they are worthy of being loved...it only appears as though they are self loving. Much the same way that a, so called, "egotistical" person is not actually feeling like they are meeting their need for significance -ego/third chakra/significance, whatever...the point is, they do not think highly of themselves, but the opposite. Someone who knows they are significant does not need to go about trying to prove it. Likewise, you needn't worry about becoming narcissistic through loving yourself.

this is true and doesn't make anybody bad.  plus i think many narcissists can love others easier than GET it from others.  but you can go within for that  "I am love"  Oh, and we get hooked on getting the approval of particular people who are much more asleep than you are..

I also find it funny that the actual self love is called narcissism by oh so many while the surfacey people are being called authentic cause of their material life, etc.  " they smile all the time though" 

Lived with asleep people all my life.  who actually behaved like this the more i came even closer to realizing how awake i was

Edited by AbsoluteWave
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